Harvest Implementation against Expansion Philosophy (10 Craft Cap)
" You should read the Reddit Post once again to see why this "hinder" is a bad thing. Its explained so well there that im not even sure what to write more right now.^^´ https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l9fugs/the_sacred_grove_and_grods_law_how_path_of_exiles/ |
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" Can't be more agree with this. With Maven's Orb introduced, those "1%" are even more powerful, and average player are risking a lot to get even one good item, since every "good" item will need at least one dozen diffrent crafts, you must buy them from diffrent players, then it's very easy to get scamed. I know there are chance to get scamed in normal trade we usually do too, but in normal trade at least we can double check to avoid it. If we go buy some crafts frome others, we need to give our item for free willingly at first, then let other player do crafts, but do crafts or just log out directly, it's all depend on their conscience. Is it suppose to be like this? Or maybe we can ask for some mortgage? Then meybe it's time for craft buyer to log out directly... Yes, there is Discord to use, but still it's clunky, you need to communicate all along. Why can't just make those crafts to something like Einhar's Beasts and then trade them? This won't change trade pace we usually had, we still need to whisper people and then go to their hideout to trade, but we won't need to keep talking all along. " Totally agree with this too. Just let us can save more crafts, and please don't set an overall cap. Maybe it will need more time than Harvest league to craft good items, but it's still possible for somebody who don't want to communicate a lot in game, like me. With more saveable cap and make crafts trade like Einhar's Beasts, then Harvest will finnaly be playable for average players, after all, good crafts are much more rarer than in the past, right? Last edited by Porlorence#3978 on Feb 1, 2021, 10:12:14 PM
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they wont allow this to be as powerful as it if u can easily trade it or store more, youre basically asking them to nerf the hell out of it and make it worse for you, you just dont realise it.
theres ways in which harvest is getting in the way of gameplay flow etc, which is a negative, but you dont solve it but increasing the cap on stores, that cap is stopping the potential of the crafting being too powerful. and no, before you say it, not for the 0.001% of super rich people trading them, its stopping them being as powerful as they could be for YOU, and i would argue that is both intentional and a good thing. if you want them sellable like beasts then the targeted exalts are basically just exalts that are better than exalts, so expect them to be rarer than exalts and ull almost never see them and when you do because you only have one you cant do fuck all with it same way u cant with exalts so youll have to sell it to the 0.001% who can afford to use many of them to make 1 item. thats the reality. why dont you people understand the easier something is to sell either the less powerful it has to be or the more rare it has to be? the payoff for how powerful this is for you and me is that we cant stockpile and combo mod a ton of stuff all at once and we cant easily buy and sell it. sometimes you got to learn to just enjoy a thing rather than ask to have your cake, eat it and then have another. i would expect long term that harvest will not get more powerful for you guys like you want it to be, if anything i expect it to get less powerful for you when they nerf it a bit. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" Please read the Reddit Post once again to realize why this "balancing" GGG intended and you refer to here isnt anything good for the game. And furthermore, its not even working as intended. We, the Players who dont want to engang with TFT for example, or craft/sell then and there when the games rng forces it on us, are the once carrying this "balancing act". Those who know how to use it(up to creating Mirror Worthy Stuff) dont do anything differently then in Harvest. They go and buy as much as they want to. Cause the Cap isnt applying there. Nor would it help, cause gutting the trading even more as it allready is would pretty sure cause an uproar in the community. " This attitude boils down to "You can leave if you dont like it" or all those other phrases people love to throw around. We dont want anything insane. We dont want nerfs, we dont wont buffs. We listed, in the post and here in the thread several ways to improve the system without touching the crafts itself too. We want that the System is working in a way, that not just plainly stupid. Reddit Post Link, once again: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l9fugs/the_sacred_grove_and_grods_law_how_path_of_exiles/ Whats to enjoy in such a system? We get to occasionaly craft something the 1% is showing off on Reddit all day long? And heck no, im not just gonna sit back quiet and pretend everything is fine. Or worse, say its good as is. Its, sorry, just shit. Its just like so many decisions GGG makes, that are just not sound. And a lot of what they do is indeed just not good. They are insanly good at creating Content and new Worlds and lore and such! Visuals too! But they suck hard on QoL improvments and balancing acts. Especially when its really cleraly obvious they didnt do much with HArvest before implementing it. "Put a low Cap on it and go. It will be fine. They want it back so give it to them lol. I dont care" Proof? HOW could it happen that crafts which need to be dropped from the Horti Station didnt get a rework well until the league? That was a bug, they made that clear with there post. They just didnt take something like this into account. And to then argue that there way of doing something is fine and some should just enjoy it? No sorry, in some departments it absolutly looks like players are more pationated about PoE then GGG themself. WHICH IS EVEN A GOOD THING to some degree! Cause Playerfeedback is what improves the game in the long run. And with all the obvious explanations (in eg the reddit post) we can only hope that they will listen and finally do what they wanted to do at the end of Harvest: Implement it in a way thats reducing the to fast to OP shit and opening a better crafing experience to the whole playerbase, not just the 1%. --- Got kinda heated there, sorry for that but man. This whole thing got me worked up. Its so wrong from the get go that im just not able to ignore its stupididy... |
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" Well maybe I can describe what I feel in another way. In whole Harvest league, I barely sold any crafts, only sold a few to my friends in real world. Why? Because sell those crafts to stranger means I need to keep communicating with them to know what they want and when do I stop, I don't want to do this, it's so annoying. So in Harvest league I just craft item for myself, didn't do much, only one charactor was fully armed. I think most people are somehow like me, we just want to play game, occasionally buy something from others, not spend a lot of time to communicating negotiating discussing with other players. So yeah, maybe make crafts tradeable like Einhar's beasts is a little bit out of mind, but still, if we go buy crafts from others, it's absolutely no diffrence with Harvest league, this is for those top "1%", but for most average player who don't want to spend a lot of time to communicating, even selling crafts feel clunky. Is that right to make something only for those top "1%"? I mean, this is really only for them, it's not they do it in 3 days you do it in 3 weeks thing, it's you'll never do it unless you do it in their way. Meybe you mean we should just ignore Harvest after we've done league challenges about it? So I really hope GGG at least remove the cap of Horticrafting Station, I can go with spend 2 weeks or more to craft one item. Last edited by Porlorence#3978 on Feb 2, 2021, 1:55:33 AM
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" Well, it doesn't work though. It doesn't affect the top-end, they store their crafts in currency and buy them as needed. So for them, it is just as powerful as it would be without a cap. Just look at reddit, do you see a restricted version of Harvest that isn't quite as powerful, or do you see 1000 PDPS 1-hand weapons and perfect triple-elevated armors? I see the second. And I would be fine with nerfing Harvest in the sense that you can only craft on items with a maximum of 4 mods. That would prevent it from being a perfection tool for 6T1 items altogether, and they could make it less rare instead of more rare. They could also make the crafts account-bound. So many options, but they chose to pamper the 1% again, because, you know, they really need it, the game is hard for them. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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" ive read it and vie responded to you, and you havent responded to the points ive made because you dont have a good response to the points ive made because its you who isnt reading whats being said. " no, you think the intent is to stop the 0.0001% making mirror items. its not, the 0.0001% made mirror items with fossils, with essences, with eternal exalts, they were making mirror items in anarchy the first ever league, theyve always been making these perfect items since 2013. you think if it wasnt for those people it would be fine for you to store 50 crafts. no, no it wouldnt, the 10 limit is stopping YOU from having the full power of every decent mod youve found in the last few weeks at your fingertips at any time. its stopping YOU, its intended for YOU, thats what you are not getting. YOU have to make a decision about what you keep, what you use and what you leave behind, you dont get to keep all the things, thats why you get the option of all these things because the game knows you cant keep them all, its giving you agency and offering a tradeoff. you are asking for a buff, youre asking for increased storage which is a massive buff, it means you have more of the crafts available to you when you need them. you havent looked at the cumbersom nature of the thing and worked out a way to change it that nerfs you, youve not put any changes on the table which make it less powerful for you, youve put ones on that make it way more powerful for you. " yes, theyre counting on that, thats why the market isnt overun with targeted exalts for 10c each because 99.999% of people are not selling their crafts on the open market in the current system. you can have nice things because you and most other people are not trading them, if the system was set up in a way that made it appealing to sell them you wouldnt be allowed them to begin with, this is the tradeoff. " its not for them, they wouldnt have added this for them. theyve added this for you and me, and the limitations are there for you and me, you can craft your item with the current system. start it and then use the mods as you find them. im not buying or selling crafts, im just self finding harvests while i map and using them. i made this ring a few days ago, self found base, i think i used a self found essence on it and then worked on it from there with self found harvests and finally used my crafting bench and some self found catalysts to finish it. there is 0 trade in this ring. i made this sceptre, still working on divining the spell crit up to 79% then im calling it done. its fine, its not perfect but its rly good. nothing about it has been traded for. you can make things, and the things you can make are closer to the stuff the 0.001% are making than ever before. they could always make perfect items, they would always find a way. so why are we asking for more power? and yes, that IS what is being asked for when we talk about boosting the cap. " it does effect the top end, it doesnt stop them but it does limit what they can do and increase how much it costs. it also limits what we can do, so yes, it does work. they will never make items soul bound, its just not going to happen and you know it. theyre not pamping the top %, theyre pampering us and youre bitching about it for some bizarre reason. im super critical of this game at times but im also praising of it and accepting of it when appropriate. are you sure youre not just being negative for the sake of being negative? because your crafting power has just been multiplied by 10 and for some reason you are complaining. apparently it has to be x50 or youre not happy? this is what im saying, cant people just accept the things power for what it is? yes changes need made to stop it breaking down gameplay flow, it needs qol, but that qol should not buff the power of it, it need qol and a slight nerf, not just boost it to 50 storage so i have the full power of all the mods all the time. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" Yeah, I get that.... but why? That is what I am not getting. Why do they want to make it harder to craft at the bottom end, and easier to craft at the top end? At the top end, I don't have to decide what to keep and what not - I keep everything, just stored in Exalts instead of the Horticrafting Station. I mean, it can't be a problem if it is easy to craft such items, otherwise it would be a problem if the top end of players crafts such items. Why is it a problem if the average joe has good access to crafting, but it isn't a problem if the top end has? I get the point of that from the top-end player view, but GGG isn't a top end player, they are game developers. And it doesn't seem to make sense gameplay wise. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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" Sorry but read it again. And my first post too. Im not going to play broken record when its a few clicks away already posted(as i stated too lol). I dont "argue your points" as you either dont get what we are talking about/want to have changed/addressed OR (much worse) you are for the current version because reason that escapes my understanding. As in, why would anybody like the current version so much to fight for it/argue for it. Its all spelled out allready. Sorry if you dont get the point. Or in other words, keep complaining that we complain for complaining reasons. yeah right. what? If you really think this all is because we "memememe!" and "we want more buh GGG give more why no fun allowed?!?" then sorry, you absolutly missed the whole point of this discussion then. I mean you even claim I want stuff I never said in the first place. And if you misinterpret my words in that meaning then all hope is lost. Please read again what this is all about. Lets talk then! Last edited by Teigo#1907 on Feb 2, 2021, 8:57:24 AM
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Let me state that both @Teigo and @Snorkle_uk are correct, but as I stated before in my first reply, TencentGGG can't make their own mind.
Sure, adding the "item editor" as Harvest is called is a great step to allow CRAFTING to be called as such, instead of RNG gambling, but just as in the Bestiary's fiasco - regarding it's implementation - not removing some RNG, by actually making rarer, more powerful mods be protected by "worthy" enemies, damages the ratio of danger/reward which was never a PoE "forte"... Add to that the RNG of adding mods, instead of making the best tiers DROP ONLY, and making the "perfect" values actually difficult to reach, and you get the current fiasco with Harvest implemented in a "meh" way... It's like TencentGGG became "too afraid" that if the "power" isn't there, it will fail as a mechanic - and they're right - but they also suddenly became aware of the problems highlighted - like, you will "never, ever in a bazillion years DROP a decent upgrade in the end game", so they force you to "craft it yourself"... All is fine and dandy, but why the heck don't they comprehend that both "trading" AND "crafting" should be INFERIOR to the loot you actually find by killing enemies in a damn ARPG??? Seriously, we need a "charm" that applies to items that are looted and states like "enhanced awakened item mod/mods available" for ONLY THE PLAYER THAT DROPPED IT. The item can still be tradeable, but won't activate the "goodies" - think of those akin to personal bases that drop RARE already, and that would ONLY WORK FOR YOU... Add those new cool mods to the proper end game encounters, and you're set, you will HAVE EVERYONE PICKING UP THEIR DAMN DROPS AND IDENTIFY THEM... Meanwhile, the current limit of 10 "stored crafts" NEEDS to have them ALL AVAILABLE IN HIDEOUT, so we would at least spend a little less time feeling the pressing need to instantly "harvest"... PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"... Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... Last edited by sofocle10000#6408 on Feb 2, 2021, 9:23:45 PM
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