Should PoE still be advertised for its variety in abilities and options?

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Either you never checked my profile or you are hallucinating.

I am also talking about balance btw. You just can't comprehend the fact that balance doesn't mean that everything has to be equal.

You must be hallucinating. Where did I said everything has to be equal?
Is this another debating tactic of generalizing to draw out another pointless conversation with you?

I checked your profile trust me nothing worth mentioning. The only build that might survive a t16 100% delirious map (but surely not t19) is a dual nebuloch build that you seem to slap on every build discussion at every occasion. 30 minute map clear probably judging by the bottom tier damage. So yeah you wanna talk about balance?
Let me know when you got decent builds and know what is strong and what is weak in relation currently you have absolutley no clue what you are talking about when you take the word balance in your mouth.

Make me laugh some more with balance talk of yours.

To not further derail the topic (like some guys tend to):

OP is right PoE it strongly devolved into very few options that outclass everything else by a long shot. Decreasing this marging should be one of GGG's goals if they dont want their next league to have 100% aura effect stackers.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Either you never checked my profile or you are hallucinating.

Spoiler: a bunch of non-tanky level 95ish melee crap projects. And a dual nebuloch chief.

I think you brag too much from what you show us.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Ydoum wrote:

Now, there's a ton more variability, but at the same time - only the most tryhard meta builds are able to complete all the content that's available.

This is, of course, not players' fault

It actually is the players fault, as your first line is a false assumption to begin with. It's possible to complete any content up to tier 16 100% delirium maps on absolutely any build, the question is only if the player in question is capable of doing so.

I've got a wide variety of builds at the moment and all of them can do endgame content while for the most part having <2% usage on POE Ninja. Some are better than others, some excel at quick mapping, others at bossing, but when it comes to doing the content they all can AND with essentially no budget requirement beyond a 6 link armor. I can't say for sure if each and every one of them could beat tier 16 100% delirium in their current state, some might not be ready for that yet, but with some more investment it would be no problem as high delirium is a mere DPS check at the end of the day and everything below is certified doable.

Try hard meta builds are better and more efficient at doing stuff any easier to make work maybe but it's not like you need them for anything. That's like saying you need a formula 1 racer to win a bycicle race, no you don't, any car will do here.

I would agree with Baharoth.
To finish the game questline up to A8 you can do with literary any skill. Hell, people have done it with default attack.

Default Attack Awakener 8 kill (HC zDPS Melee Only Private League)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKEePpBlXQ4&ab_channel=Ferarex

So that's that.

I've came to PoE from Dota 2 and meta is the way to keep things fresh. Things change and what was OP next league it isn't. Shifts are good and stats on PoE ninja just say what is the easiest (the meta).

Also player skill lvl vary a lot, so what i expect to be normal skill lvl to many people isn't and they have problems doing too many actions.
Summoners mitigate that and it's fine. I don't mind them being strong because i find fun in other playstyles.

Many on forum will argue that it melee is crap, why play it, it's more difficult, it's expensive etc... Some people don't mind. I didn't even updated some of my builds and some play it still, even though i suggested that there are better things atm because they don't care about meta as long it scratches the itch for them. I find that great!

Anyway yeah, PoE should be advertised for it's variety. It's never been greater. Mathil proves that literary every league and he even said that everything is viable nowadays.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Either you never checked my profile or you are hallucinating.

I am also talking about balance btw. You just can't comprehend the fact that balance doesn't mean that everything has to be equal.

this too +

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zzang wrote:

I checked your profile trust me nothing worth mentioning. The only build that might survive a t16 100% delirious map (but surely not t19)

That's elitism. 👆

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frostzor27 wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Either you never checked my profile or you are hallucinating.

Spoiler: a bunch of non-tanky level 95ish melee crap projects. And a dual nebuloch chief.

I think you brag too much from what you show us.

And i think you couldn't recognize a decent build if you saw one. Besides, link one post where i claim my builds to be good. All i ever did was saying i can do content X with it, because i can. If that's bragging for you, well so be it.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

And i think you couldn't recognize a decent build if you saw one.

None of yours for sure.

So would you stop please bragging melee is fine, death penalty is fine, because you can't prove your points. Well, assuming this is your official main account.

Right now all you do is troll the discussions you participate.

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

meta is the way to keep things fresh. Things change and what was OP next league it isn't

Summoners meta being OP and not changing since when, Delve?

Meta changes in a MOBA are way easier than ARPG. Specially a complex one as PoE.

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frostzor27 wrote:

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

meta is the way to keep things fresh. Things change and what was OP next league it isn't

Summoners meta being OP and not changing since when, Delve?

Meta changes in a MOBA are way easier than ARPG. Specially a complex one as PoE.

I could bet summoners will continue to be strong simply because ggg has to have something in the game that is not mechanically difficult. It might change to totems but totem playstyle isn't that appealing.

it is getting pretty obvious that there are at least two 'games' being talked about here

first one is 2017 POE, where t16 is pinnacle of everything and that is the goal

second one is the modern POE, game with ABSURD damage spikes, timed content, spongy mobs and the like. game where some rares have more hp than shaper..


sure, the first game is better but.. thats the past. that game does not exist anymore. i have several builds from 2017 (or earlier). they are ALL crap by nowadays standard. they were perfectly fine in time where 'double core malachai capable' meant something. nowadays? even with refreshed gear - GARBAGE

same story with meme melee builds waved around by some. you HAVE to use one of very few crutches to make melee work: stuff like abyssus, divine flesh, slams, impale or DoT (it is an open list). you stumble on a build that cannot utilize these? congrats youve failed.

same applies to bows (the variety is even worse there but the power level is higher thus most people is 'fine' with that)


balance.. if we have a scale of 1 to 10 and majority of builds sits at 3-4 while some sit at 10.. you dont have balance nor you have variety. game designers can make content for first group (making several players complain that the game is too easy) or balance around the top making the 'casual 3-4' group suffer (note: pretending that being able to access only 25% of content is 'ok' counts as suffering)

current POE is like that, but there are some builds that for reasons unknown to man sit squarely at 256. zzang listed some abhorrent cases, there are more.


it is a nice nostalgic feeling that 'everything is viable' and bs like that. problems:
- it is sweet bull.. if a build decked in harvest gear (that sore Cleaver) dies to unmodded, flat T16 boss in a showcase run. for me build like that is anything but viable.
- people claiming it still is are playing different builds. they wont play crap but are gladly coercing others to. people going for 40 wont accept a build that can die to t16 boss or clears slowly.


if you are in competitive in any way you will avoid certain builds - because it doesnt take a genius to know that they offer nothing over other options. there is content in this game that is much harder to some (mostly melee) characters because GGG has a hardon for 'area denial DoTs near bosses' and 'forcing players to move' boss design. characters that cannot deal damage from range/while on the move are penalized and that penalty is NOT compensated with anything. it is not limited to melee (some content used to be very summoner unfriendly, most conditional challenges still are) but somehow mostly affects them - thus the garbage melee representation in top spots. wwhy bother with this crap when other, already stronger build doesnt have to?

you can play for fun, maybe you can even kill a8 with any garbage skill. so what. one fight (as stupid as that fight is) is one fight. getting there takes 100s of maps and these wont be 'fun' playing a build with all cons and no pros. you can default attack sirus to death, i dare anyone completing getting to delve 100 that way (and you kinda have to delve for recipes every league) or defeat syndicate ambush.


anyone claiming that differences between builds are 'visible but not a problem' - pick a cheap summoner build, play it till 90 and then compare that experience with lets say Cleave on similar budget. it might be bearable? it just might be.

but then take said characters straight into t16 100% and compare what happens.


and it is not going to be Cleave player's fault (getting back to start of this discussion)

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sidtherat wrote:

- people claiming it still is are playing different builds. they wont play crap but are gladly coercing others to. people going for 40 wont accept a build that can die to t16 boss or clears slowly.


if you are in competitive in any way you....

you can play for fun,...

And this is where your presumptions are wrong.

Very few people go for 100 but i have a friend that does it every league. In Delirium he played melee Jugg, Harvest i skipped and now he's a summoner.
He doesn't care about meta or whatever as long something is interesting to him.

Not everyone has that feeling of "competition".

Why else you would play any game unless for fun? Again, players are very different and have drastically different idea of fun.

Not everyone is a meta slave or either interested into 100% Delirious maps let alone farming them . That's prob less than 1%.

Also dying to T16 boss is nothing to be ashamed. You can die to a lot less if things align right. Ffs you can die with 250k ES from a oneshot.