Real Money Auction House RMAH for poe

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Why should people that have more time not have a advanteg over people that dont have time?
If I play the game for 40h, i should have a advantage over the player that doesn't have time to play that much.

WoW. Ok, don't take this personal, I don't mean offense, but I'm gonna go ahead an say that you are extremely biased in this regard.

I'd say you are either an adolescent (with lot's of free time) or an unemployed adult (with, again, lot's of free time).

When you have almost no real time consuming responsibilities it is easy to believe 'time > everything else'. The thing is, a lot of people simply do not have the time that you most likely have. Why are those people not entitled to the same things that you are apparently entitled to, just because they have more responsibilities than you do?

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AgentDave wrote:

As for your 3rd paragraph... I can't really agree. Money isn't an implicitly included factor in Magic the Gathering, but clearly the player with more money has an advantage. Knowledge is applicable in electronic battleship (there are only so many configurations available that the computer "knows", and a player could memorize them and use that to their advantage.). Time isn't implicitly included in any game with a set timeline (for example, "Zuma Blitz" on facebook...), and yet it's clearly an advantage. Friends can't help you in Chess, but they can absolutely affect the game in Munchkin or Risk. And so on. Explicit exclusion is required (or a design which eliminates the relivence.), and once something is explicitly excluded, it's perfectly reasonable to question why THIS is excluded and THAT isn't.

I don't get most of your examples here, but the ones I do get I totally disagree with.

In addition, as I added to a previous post, many aspects of games in real life that you'd play with your friends would not have this issue... you wouldn't play a game with a friend who would sabotage the game by dumping their resources on another friend. This consideration is apparently thrown out the window because we're playing online with strangers.

The INTENDED mode of play for this game is very very clear... you spend your time playing the game, meeting people, and gathering resources... and you trade those with other players who have done the same.

The ONLY reason this is a discussion is because we are playing with strangers in a situation where a MAJOR external factor is not possible to regulate, and players WILL use it, putting those that do not behind.

That's different. In a boardgame like monopoly you are specifically playing a 1 time game.
In these types of games it is simply forbidden (read monopoly's manual, I'm sure it's in there) to exchange resources between players.

Also, since it's only a 1 time thing, the friend you give your resources to will barely be thankful for it.
After all, it only makes a difference for the duration of that single monopoly game.
With these things in mind, why would you give your resources to your friend in monopoly?

In an online game like this however, whatever you give your friend is there forever, and will make him happier for much longer than the duration of 1 monopoly game, and thus it's also more fun for you to give it to him.
And yeah, friend trading in games like these is unavoidable, but that's exactly why it's just as much 'unfair' as someone having a lot of luck with drops.
And of course, there is simply no rule against giving stuff to one of your friends, as that would be madness.

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Tagek wrote:

"

Why should people that have more time not have a advanteg over people that dont have time?
If I play the game for 40h, i should have a advantage over the player that doesn't have time to play that much.

WoW. Ok, don't take this personal, I don't mean offense, but I'm gonna go ahead an say that you are extremely biased in this regard.

I'd say you are either an adolescent (with lot's of free time) or an unemployed adult (with, again, lot's of free time).

When you have almost no real time consuming responsibilities it is easy to believe 'time > everything else'. The thing is, a lot of people simply do not have the time that you most likely have. Why are those people not entitled to the same things that you are apparently entitled to, just because they have more responsibilities than you do?

Tagek, please in future try to not assume something like that, because it can insult people.

If they want to compete in this type of game, they will need a lot of time compared to others. If you don't have time for this, twhat means you don't want to compete in this game, and you can't be same as people that have time and realy want to do it.

This is a arpg game, where time is power. More time you have, better items and biger lvl you are, so higer on ladder you are.

While ethics are highly variable, and ethical analysis is often very difficult for people, this one is not hard at all. Any rational person could tell you what the intended mode of play is in these games... these extra factors are only an issue because it's an unregulatable mechanism, and using it is against a group of people who you are not, in any way, responsible to, nor are your actions transparent.

If any of these factors were changed, this wouldn't even be a conversation.

I gotta jet to work... have fun!

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zeto wrote:

I don't get most of your examples here, but the ones I do get I totally disagree with.

In addition, as I added to a previous post, many aspects of games in real life that you'd play with your friends would not have this issue... you wouldn't play a game with a friend who would sabotage the game by dumping their resources on another friend. This consideration is apparently thrown out the window because we're playing online with strangers.

The INTENDED mode of play for this game is very very clear... you spend your time playing the game, meeting people, and gathering resources... and you trade those with other players who have done the same.

The ONLY reason this is a discussion is because we are playing with strangers in a situation where a MAJOR external factor is not possible to regulate, and players WILL use it, putting those that do not behind.

I play games all the time where players "dump resources" on another player - it's the nature of games (and of human psychology... People like playing Kingmaker. (If you're not familar with what I'm refering to... "If I can't win, I'll at least help someone else win, so I can feel like I achieved something.".))

Sometimes it's subtle (where you attack (or don't attack) in Risk). Sometimes it's not (Where you put the theif in Settlers of Catan). Anytime you can help, hurt, or interact with other players, the bias of relationship will matter.

Additionally (as I believe I pointed out last time you presented this or a similar argument.) If the intended mode of play was to only play/trade with people you meet while playing the game, GGG has done a terrible job of enforcing that. There are 101 ways they could prevent your outside influences from mattering that they aren't even attempting to control.

And lastly, you're still comparing Me AGAINST You. Which is silly, in the context of PoE. (Sorry... but it is.) We're at worst not competing, and at best, working together. In a game which you play cooperatively, you absolutely dump resources on other players - you want to do well, so you help those who you can help.

Some people really are narrow-minded here.
bantering about what's "intended" is not very interesting when the question asked is why.

These guys just dont understand.

Time is the same for everyone. Everyone has 24 hrs a day, its how you choose to spend your time that changes from person to person.

Not everyone has 300 dollars to spare. I hope that you guys understand that. The guy with more money will be able to spend more money than a guy that has 10 dollars to spend.

And dont bring the same argument about a guy that has more time to spend or is smarter.

You can not buy time, experience or knoledge in real life can you?

These guys are making it look like they are so miserable and they have to have an advantage somehow. If you guys have the advantage of having more money in life than others why should you guys have the advantage in a game were real money is not valued?

I just want a game were money is not part of your skill set.

YOu can respond to me if you want but I wont come back to read the same thing or some made up the loopholes. Have fun and a good life.

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Papagoat wrote:

You can not buy time, experience or knoledge in real life can you?

Of course you can.

You can buy a maid to clean your house or a nanny to take care of your kids or a chef to make dinner for you. (time)

You can buy experience by taking an unpaid internship, or taking the risk and swallowing the losses that come with making the mistakes (experience.)

You can buy knowledge (books, paying for research tools like LexisNexis or hiring a professional to teach you, going to college/med school/law school, and so on.) (Knowledge)

Edit: By the way, you're assuming that because I am in favor of a RMAH that I have extraneous money. I'm not exactly in the poor house, but that's just not true. I simply dislike hypocracy, illogical decision, bad game design, telling people how to live (/play) for the sake of doing so, and so on.

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Papagoat wrote:

These guys just dont understand.

Time is the same for everyone. Everyone has 24 hrs a day, its how you choose to spend your time that changes from person to person.

Not everyone has 300 dollars to spare. I hope that you guys understand that. The guy with more money will be able to spend more money than a guy that has 10 dollars to spend.

And dont bring the same argument about a guy that has more time to spend or is smarter.

You can not buy time, experience or knoledge in real life can you?

These guys are making it look like they are so miserable and they have to have an advantage somehow. If you guys have the advantage of having more money in life than others why should you guys have the advantage in a game were real money is not valued?

I just want a game were money is not part of your skill set.

YOu can respond to me if you want but I wont come back to read the same thing or some made up the loopholes. Have fun and a good life.

That logic is flawed far beyond belief.
How does everyone have 24 hours that he can spend however he wants?

Sure, someone with an important job and a family could potentially drop everything and play a videogame for days on end, thus aquiring 'time'.
But in that same sense, a poor person could rob a bank and thus aquire 'money'. Of course, most of the time, both these examples would ruin the entire lives of the people that excercise them. The guy with the job / family loses both his job and family because he just plays videogames all day, and the poor guy robbing a bank is going to get arrested and has to spend 20 years in jail.
In the end, it certainly isn't easier for the family guy to aquire time than it is for the poor guy to aquire money.

TL;DR: Saying time is something everyone can spend as they wish is simply ignorant. Just because you have lots of time on your hands doesn't mean everyone else does.

Also:

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I just want a game were money is not part of your skill set.

Here you are implying that 'time' can be part of your skillset, as you directly compared it with money.

I'm not sure what universe you live in, but I don't know anyone, not even a troll, who considers 'having time on your hands' a 'skill'.