Let's talk about P2W - What is it? What is it not?

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kuciol wrote:

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Rexeos wrote:

Time.

Ah yes, the thing that you waste by playing games.

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Rexeos wrote:

Your world, not mine.

Spending money on time-saving things make people more content/satisfied and are more ok with their purchases.

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kuciol wrote:

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Rexeos wrote:

Your world, not mine.

Spending money on time-saving things make people more content/satisfied and are more ok with their purchases.

Doesnt matter. As long as you are not required to pay the game is not p2w. Cant be by the simple fact that you dont have to.

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deschanel wrote:

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boyandroid wrote:

But the positive buff in the private leagues is definitely P2W in my definition since paying to gain access to it is the only way to get those buff.

that's a private league though, i.e. everyone in that league paid to get in, there's no one who isn't paying. what exactly are you "winning" if everyone is on the same playing field as you in an isolated league that isnt connected to the rest of the game?

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boyandroid wrote:

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deschanel wrote:

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boyandroid wrote:

But the positive buff in the private leagues is definitely P2W in my definition since paying to gain access to it is the only way to get those buff.

that's a private league though, i.e. everyone in that league paid to get in, there's no one who isn't paying. what exactly are you "winning" if everyone is on the same playing field as you in an isolated league that isnt connected to the rest of the game?

But it's still connected to the rest of the game. You can even complete challenges in Private league. Yes, everyone participating in the private league has equal footing but take note, those private league will gain "buff" that will gain an advantage from players that only play the normal league.

For example, you're a casual player that can only play for 2 hrs a day. Then there are challenges that will require at least 5 hrs a day to complete so he/she can get the rewards. It will not be possible for him/her to get it in normal circumstances.

What if there's a private league that gains a buff like this content has x10 chance to get that is required for those challenges. It will now become possible for him/her to get those challenges & rewards.

Do you think it is fair for the other casual players who are similar to him/her that cannot pay for access to those type of private league?

Yes, challenge rewards are just pixels. But those pixels have real-world equal value. If you don't get the wings or portal or any mtx rewards, it means you don't win $20 or $30, because you can't pay for access to the private league that others have.

Aside from that, they can also have easier access to better loots & resources that they can dump to the parent league after completing it.

That's why the initial & current design of the private league only add "negative" mods & they don't want to add "buff" to be "fair" for the rest of the game.

But if they can just make those "buff" private league as "void" league. Then it's fine. But will the participant of those "buff" private league will be ok with that? You're going to pay for a league that's going to be deleted at the end & you won't get anything from it aside from temporary increase of satisfaction from increase buff?

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deschanel wrote:

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boyandroid wrote:

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deschanel wrote:

that's a private league though, i.e. everyone in that league paid to get in, there's no one who isn't paying. what exactly are you "winning" if everyone is on the same playing field as you in an isolated league that isnt connected to the rest of the game?

But it's still connected to the rest of the game. You can even complete challenges in Private league. Yes, everyone participating in the private league has equal footing but take note, those private league will gain "buff" that will gain an advantage from players that only play the normal league.

For example, you're a casual player that can only play for 2 hrs a day. Then there are challenges that will require at least 5 hrs a day to complete so he/she can get the rewards. It will not be possible for him/her to get it in normal circumstances.

What if there's a private league that gains a buff like this content has x10 chance to get that is required for those challenges. It will now become possible for him/her to get those challenges & rewards.

Do you think it is fair for the other casual players who are similar to him/her that cannot pay for access to those type of private league?

Yes, challenge rewards are just pixels. But those pixels have real-world equal value. If you don't get the wings or portal or any mtx rewards, it means you don't win $20 or $30, because you can't pay for access to the private league that others have.

Aside from that, they can also have easier access to better loots & resources that they can dump to the parent league after completing it.

That's why the initial & current design of the private league only add "negative" mods & they don't want to add "buff" to be "fair" for the rest of the game.

But if they can just make those "buff" private league as "void" league. Then it's fine. But will the participant of those "buff" private league will be ok with that? You're going to pay for a league that's going to be deleted at the end & you won't get anything from it aside from temporary increase of satisfaction from increase buff?

I don't understand why that would bother a casual player though. Why do you need the achievement if you're just a casual? I'm a casual player and I don't have a lot of achievements. I don't feel entitled to them if I'm not playing the game that much? It sounds a lot like you want things for free..

I also don't see the standard parent league as any sort of problem. It's the infinite open server, currency flows into it all the time, it's not like private league people are being transferred to Harvest league or such.

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boyandroid wrote:

Looks like you have no understanding what the current Private league does, so here read this https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Private_league

I'm also not even gonna bother re-explaining my point, which is having FAIR chance for everyone. If you don't understand or realize what I'm trying to say, I'll just leave it as it is. I thought I already explain my point clearly even saying an example. So, if if you still don't get it, it's up to you.

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deschanel wrote:

You know, you could just simply say that private leagues are transferred to harvest league, it's not complicated to explain without sending one off into a snooze.

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deschanel wrote:

If that's true it kinda doesn't change my opinion, I just don't see a problem.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

7 pages of absurdity.

Let's clear a few things up and help really narrow this down.

1. 99% of the things you can spend money on are cosmetic, that dont impact gameplay at all.

2. The only item(s) that do, are stash tabs, which narrows the discussion further. Really what we are discussing is "are stash tabs p2w?"

3. There is nothing objectively to win in PoE. Is making to red maps winning? Level 100? Global PoE stock market domination? Its totally subjective.

4. I cannot fathom how one players experience impacts another in the context of their MTX purchases. Does Mathil having all the MTX in the game, and ton of tabs impact me? No.

5. Imo stash tabs are QoL. Having tabs doesnt make you a better player. They dont tell you what to store, what to sell, how mechanics interact. Spending money and having tabs doesn't make your build work, or perform better.

6. "Advantage" is totally subjective in a non-pvp, mosty single player experience.(totally in SSF). Time isnt a commodity to quantify in an rng based loot game. Anything can happen at anytime to facilitate advancement. (6L, rare drop, crafting slot machine, etc...)