Thoughts on GGG's dishonesty, false advertising, and new stash tabs.

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dierath wrote:

Hi, i want free game.
Hi, i want content updates every few months.
Hi, i want constant bug fixes.
Hi, i want constant updates from the creators so i know what is suppose to happen next.
Hi, i want free stash tabs perfectly created for QoL of the player and has nothing to do with supporting a game i come back to constantly over the years and put 100's of hours into.

Hi, I want the things I buy to work as advertised and retain their value down the line, if that isn't possible I'd like to know it in advance.

I've had maybe 6 delirium orbs drop this league and enough splinters to run 3 simulacrums.

The delirium tab is completely and utterly useless unless you plan on sinking hundreds of exalts into orbs in trade leagues.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

There is not much space left in those existing tabs. So at some point they would have to either stop adding new things to the game or add new tabs. Lets say they did this a couple years ago. Would the game be better or worse if there were no Scarabs, Metamorphs or Oils? I think it would be worse and the game would be old/stale/more dead now.

So let the premium tabs scroll. Ctrl-Click still works.
Added more types of fragment, splinter, body part? Scroll down.

Of course, then adding more item types wouldn't sell more tab types.

I'll gladly accuse GGG of many things but dishonesty and false advertising is not among them.

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Crackmonster wrote:

I'll gladly accuse GGG of many things but dishonesty and false advertising is not among them.

Dishonesty:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/heqok2/chris_wilson_at_exilecon_stating_that_ggg_doesnt/

False Advertising:
The currency tab was sold saying that ALL currency will go in it. It doesn't currently.

@Crackmonster: please elaborate on your statement. I'm willing to listen.

Let's just say that their offenses in this regard are small enough that they can be overlooked in the overall picture and for the most part can be summed up as mistakes or changing opinions. With a large enough company if they open their mouths enough such mistakes happens, and changing your opinion is not the same as intentionally spreading false information.

My overall impression from day one has always been that they follow their ideas and try to state it honestly, their shortcomings are more in terms of how well their ideas were thought out in the first place.

And also a lot of offense people are taking often is people assuming things but never really paying attention to the actual words that were said, or taking the words too literally and not figuring out there are persons behind this trying to convey their intentions, trying to satisfy and make promises, and sometimes burying themselves in a hole. It doesn't always have to be about betraying your promises.

I mean the gravest "deceptions" could be things like microtransactions offering no gameplay advantages when we have stash tabs and.. it's really a moving target as gaming evovlved we worked d2 with less than default here and over time the game changed and stash tabs just became a more needed thing etc. Things like this, which is in the petty department of trying to call them dishonest in my opinion.

So they got new tabs and now the word "all" relating to currency is no longer accurate. I mean.. sure it should be fixed etc but no need to call them out as liars and cheaters etc. That's missing the point totally. Not a good way to go through life and view others. Can't you see how small an ultimately irrelevant thing it is? How overkill it is to try kill their reputation about it? It would be another thing if this was how they always operated, using misleading words to get you to buy stuff that turned out to be something else. And honestly if i recall right there are even consumer laws about not delivering what was digitally promised and can get refunds etc. Like, it makes no sense they would do this intentionally whatsoever.

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Antigegner wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

I'll gladly accuse GGG of many things but dishonesty and false advertising is not among them.

Dishonesty:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/heqok2/chris_wilson_at_exilecon_stating_that_ggg_doesnt/

False Advertising:
The currency tab was sold saying that ALL currency will go in it. It doesn't currently.

@Crackmonster: please elaborate on your statement. I'm willing to listen.

Your statement about false advertising is arguably true, but my accusation in the OP was much more specific, and it references their in-game spam claiming that all stash tabs are on sale even when they are not.

I get it; it's a placeholder message, and they didn't want to take the time to replace it with one which is accurate. The fact that they never put new tab types on sale is not an excuse; it is not the consumer's job to keep track of these things. It is the business's job to tell the consumer the truth.

Furthermore, they did this once before, which as I said was quite rude, and then continued to do so after it was brought to their attention. So my post explicitly asks them not to do it again, and... about a week later they do exactly that. This is dishonest, no matter how you spin it.

I assume Crackmonster didn't read the OP right before saying that, because the edits I made make it quite clear why I subsequently added the word to the thread title.

Oh GGG has been dishonest, this isn't new anymore.
although I'm going to mention instances of a different kind than what Gibbousmoon is talking about.

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Crackmonster wrote:

My overall impression from day one has always been that they follow their ideas and try to state it honestly, their shortcomings are more in terms of how well their ideas were thought out in the first place.

I used to think that too.

But then, at too many occasions, Chris/Jonathan/Some other GGG members said stuff about "yeah, this concerns us", "yeah we will do something about it", "that's the kind of game we want" and then the game took the opposite direction developement-wise.

This part is about the game design, the fact of the matter is that GGG has been BSing everyone for a while now, they pretend stuff to appease crowds, and then do something else instead.

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Crackmonster wrote:

not figuring out there are persons behind this trying to convey their intentions, trying to satisfy and make promises, and sometimes burying themselves in a hole. It doesn't always have to be about betraying your promises.

This simpy means BSing players.
If you can't keep a promise, don't do it : it's as simple as that.
That's the very definition of a promise, something that you know that you will do.
If somebody at GGG (speaking as a GGG member, in an official context) said / promised something and GGG did otherwise, the promise got broken, and there is no way to trust GGG regarding this unless they communicate about this particular instance ( this does not fully 'fix' the lack of trust though ).

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Antigegner wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

I'll gladly accuse GGG of many things but dishonesty and false advertising is not among them.

Dishonesty:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/heqok2/chris_wilson_at_exilecon_stating_that_ggg_doesnt/

False Advertising:
The currency tab was sold saying that ALL currency will go in it. It doesn't currently.

@Crackmonster: please elaborate on your statement. I'm willing to listen.

Your statement about false advertising is arguably true, but my accusation in the OP was much more specific, and it references their in-game spam claiming that all stash tabs are on sale even when they are not.

I get it; it's a placeholder message, and they didn't want to take the time to replace it with one which is accurate. The fact that they never put new tab types on sale is not an excuse; it is not the consumer's job to keep track of these things. It is the business's job to tell the consumer the truth.

Furthermore, they did this once before, which as I said was quite rude, and then continued to do so after it was brought to their attention. So my post explicitly asks them not to do it again, and... about a week later they do exactly that. This is dishonest, no matter how you spin it.

I assume Crackmonster didn't read the OP right before saying that, because the edits I made make it quite clear why I subsequently added the word to the thread title.

which tab wasnt one sale? the only thng that wasnt on sale was the "league bundle" and that wasnt on sale because its a temporary offer and will be removed soon
this was stated in the anouncment post of the 3 new tabs

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Crackmonster wrote:

Let's just say that their offenses in this regard are small enough that they can be overlooked in the overall picture and for the most part can be summed up as mistakes or changing opinions. With a large enough company if they open their mouths enough such mistakes happens, and changing your opinion is not the same as intentionally spreading false information.

1.) The size of the offense is irrelevant (to me at least) because it's a principle thing. I bought something that doesn't work as it should. It doesn't matter that it cost $10k or $1. But for GGGT it's the main source of income and massive amounts of small transactions can result in a great income.

2.) They are still selling the currency tabs without clearly stating that they will not hold all the currency. That's false advertising and not 'changing your mind'.
They plan ahead for months. They knew they would do it and yet they didn't change their advertising for the currency tab. That's false advertising and not 'changing your mind'.

3.) Do you remember how they messed up the map stash tab twice to sneakily push some players into buying a second one? They knew about this months ahead (actually years) but let it happen....don't make me go into this again...

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Crackmonster wrote:

My overall impression from day one has always been that they follow their ideas and try to state it honestly, their shortcomings are more in terms of how well their ideas were thought out in the first place.

And also a lot of offense people are taking often is people assuming things but never really paying attention to the actual words that were said, or taking the words too literally and not figuring out there are persons behind this trying to convey their intentions, trying to satisfy and make promises, and sometimes burying themselves in a hole. It doesn't always have to be about betraying your promises.

They are not showing any desire to fix the times they 'have buried themselves in a hole. They had plenty of time.
As I said: they plan ahead for months - yet all these shenanigans happened and even AFTER it happened they didn't show any signs of changing.

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Crackmonster wrote:

I mean the gravest "deceptions" could be things like microtransactions offering no gameplay advantages when we have stash tabs and.. it's really a moving target as gaming evolved we worked d2 with less than default here and over time the game changed and stash tabs just became a more needed thing etc. Things like this, which is in the petty department of trying to call them dishonest in my opinion.

The petty department ends when money is involved. Tabs and microtransactions are their main revenue. Just because a tab seems cheap to you doesn't mean it's not a great source of revenue for them.
They can do whatever they want to do with the game, it's free, but the premium tabs were sold for $.

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Crackmonster wrote:

So they got new tabs and now the word "all" relating to currency is no longer accurate. I mean.. sure it should be fixed etc but no need to call them out as liars and cheaters etc. That's missing the point totally. Not a good way to go through life and view others. Can't you see how small an ultimately irrelevant thing it is? How overkill it is to try kill their reputation about it? It would be another thing if this was how they always operated, using misleading words to get you to buy stuff that turned out to be something else. And honestly if i recall right there are even consumer laws about not delivering what was digitally promised and can get refunds etc. Like, it makes no sense they would do this intentionally whatsoever.

I (WE) didn't call them liars and dishonest for a very long time. But I'd say in the past 2 or maybe 3 years they have clearly positioned themselves more into that direction. As I already mentioned several times: they plan ahead for months. Please don't tell me that they don't see what would happen if they do this and that. AND, even if we grant them to make a mistake....why haven't they corrected it? They had two chances: one before they implemented something and one afterwards and they failed to make good on what they promised on both occasions.


P.S.:
Another idea for GGGT on how to sell more tabs. Now every new league you have to buy a new league specific unique-item-stash tab if you still want to collect the new unique items. New unique items won't fit into the current unique-item-tab anymore.

See the analogy?