Please limit Voices and Split Personality to 1

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yamface wrote:

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Deathfairy wrote:

The cost of this build is 1ex, too bad you forgot 200 res somewhere did you?

You need to learn how to price check items. Rare items with t1 life and resists costs next to nothing. Most players doing endgame content filter this garbage out because it sells for so little.

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Deathfairy wrote:

There is a reason everyone except ONE guys has less then 6.5k hp EVEN IN hardcore. This combination of starts on top of 200 res is no where near 50c, your starting to sound desperate buddy. And even when you do reach that 6.5k with 14k armor and max block that is quite mediocre for a melee build.

And what reason is that? I'm pretty sure you were just given some of the most budget versions of this build that is still well balanced yet you're still whining about poe ninja numbers. Tell me. Why is it that no one on poe ninja has the kind of defenses that I theorycrafted? Is it because finding high life rolls on rares with resists is too hard? Are 1-5c items too much for them?

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Deathfairy wrote:

P.S. In your profile you have managed to get 1 character to 100 in HC SSF, and guess what it is oh right it is heralds. I have a feeling you have no clue what is it you even trying to prove to me here.

Oh I see. So I spent 99.5 levels on that templar as a stormbrand heiro but now that I swapped over to a heralder for the last .5 levels I'm now a herald abuser.

1) No i don't need to learn to price check items, you need to fit in 200 rez and at least 60-80 chaos rez on FIVE item. Keeping in mind that your ring crafts are taken by - channeling cafts. and your chest has 8% life craft. That leaves you with 2 crafted options. No you are very confused on the prices of this set up.

2) It is most budget version because it is missing resistances, having these resistance on top of life and dex rolls is very expensive, especially since every item has 1 suffix taken by dex. If it is not would be quite easy to provide examples, go for it. You do remeber you have a 50c budget right?

3) I don't know how well your storm brand was build before you swapped (and considering it was higher level i assume it was even more geared then mine), my most geared one at 95 had 5.6k hp 2.6k es, soul teather, 40% mind over matter, 50ish chaos res and near max block, that is well over 10k EHP on top of permanent leech, and the massive safety of playstyle. Oh and 5% hp nd 79hp on block... That is DRASTICALLY more tanky that your "50c" hollow palm build. Oh and archmage is most definitely is broken and will be nerfed, unlike hollow palm. And when i swaped over to heralds if felt like i was immortal compared to that heiro.

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Deathfairy wrote:

1) No i don't need to learn to price check items

And that is called ignorance.

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Deathfairy wrote:

2) It is most budget version because it is missing resistances, having these resistance on top of life and dex rolls is very expensive, especially since every item has 1 suffix taken by dex. If it is not would be quite easy to provide examples, go for it. You do remeber you have a 50c budget right?

This was originally asked by you as a 4ex budget. Then I gave you something that was 100 chaos, then you demanded something even cheaper. You are moving the goalposts because you have been losing this argument the entire time. I am done with that request. You were handed a good build on a silver platter and the only comment you can make about it is that you have a problem about finding items that have high life and resists which is a fucking joke to say the least. And you only need to find good dex rolls on half of that gear. I did my job of leading the horse to the water, it's up to the horse to drink it.

edit: and I need to point out something about all of this. I currently have a berserker that uses a unique staff and gloves, neither of them give resists or life. You know what that berserker needed to stack? It needed life, strength, dex, int, accuracy, and resists in order for that build to be functional and yet I found random gear on the ground that made it happen. This is a million times harder to put together and yet I did it in fucking ssf, so why is it that you have this need to whine about finding just high life and resists and only dex on half of them?

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Deathfairy wrote:

3) I don't know how well your storm brand was build before you swapped (and considering it was higher level i assume it was even more geared then mine), my most geared one at 95 had 5.6k hp 2.6k es, soul teather, 40% mind over matter, 50ish chaos res and near max block, that is well over 10k EHP on top of permanent leech, and the massive safety of playstyle. That is DRASTICALLY more tanky that your "50c" hollow palm build. Oh and archmage is most definitely is broken and will be nerfed, unlike hollow palm. And when i swaped over to heralds if felt like i was immortal compared to that heiro.

Your heiro is less tankier than that hollow palm build. The only way you can get max block on that is by using glancing blows which still makes you take damage. That hollow palm build takes no damage whatsoever 77-79% of the time, and the other 21-23% of the time its backed by fortify, ms/vms and the fact that its cyclone with lions roar effectively makes it immune to enemy melee attacks. That massive ehp on MoM heiros means nothing if you have so little damage reduction elsewhere. This isn't even counting on the fact that if you're caught resummoning brands for new durations, you're fucked. Between all the characters I've played this league, that heiro had the highest dps but it was one of the squishiest characters I've ever played. It was high level only because it spent time on thousands of LOW LEVEL maps farming for herald gear. That is it. Not because it was doing actual challenging content.

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yamface wrote:

And that is called ignorance.

You have yet to provide one example, must be hard huh?

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This was originally asked by you as a 4ex budget. Then I gave you something that was 100 chaos, then you demanded something even cheaper. You are moving the goalposts because you have been losing this argument the entire time. I am done with that request. You were handed a good build on a silver platter and the only comment you can make about it is that you have a problem about finding items that have high life and resists which is a fucking joke to say the least. And you only need to find good dex rolls on half of that gear. I did my job of leading the horse to the water, it's up to the horse to drink it.

Really.... let me see:

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And the best part is the entire build will cost about as much as just 1 of your herald jewels.

- yamface (and my estimation of 4 ex for the jewel)

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I just made something that costs not even 100 chaos...

- yamface

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so I am now apparently working to try to downgrade this into a 50c build

- yamface

You must be very confused to think i am moving the goal post.

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Your heiro is less tankier than that hollow palm build. The only way you can get max block on that is by using glancing blows which still makes you take damage. That hollow palm build takes no damage whatsoever 77-79% of the time, and the other 21-23% of the time its backed by fortify, ms/vms and the fact that its cyclone with lions roar effectively makes it immune to enemy melee attacks. That massive ehp on MoM heiros means nothing if you have so little damage reduction elsewhere. This isn't even counting on the fact that if you're caught resummoning brands for new durations, you're fucked. Between all the characters I've played this league, that heiro had the highest dps but it was one of the squishiest characters I've ever played. It was high level only because it spent time on thousands of LOW LEVEL maps farming for herald gear. That is it. Not because it was doing actual challenging content.

Again the facts show plenty 100s of heiros and 0 OP hollow palm builds, and yet because you said it is tankier it must be so. Please do better then i said so. The basic checks show that you are wrong on your estimation. But go for it believe what you want, and keep trying to prove that somehow removing 2 pieces of gear from a melee character does not make it squishier then counter parts. It is kinda of entertaining actually.

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Deathfairy wrote:

You have yet to provide one example, must be hard huh?

Have you tried using the trade website? I'm going to only say this once: if you think buying a rare item with high life and resists is too much money, you don't know how to play the game.

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Deathfairy wrote:

You must be very confused to think i am moving the goal post.

Because you are. None of those quotes mean anything. You asked for a 4ex build, you have done nothing but complain about the price ever since. You sir have been moving the goalposts ever since. If you haven't moved the goalposts then what would of actually happened was you would've stopped arguing over it the first pastebin you were given.

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Deathfairy wrote:

Again the facts show plenty 100s of heiros and 0 OP hollow palm builds, and yet because you said it is tankier it must be so. Please do better then i said so. The basic checks show that you are wrong on your estimation. But go for it believe what you want, and keep trying to prove that somehow removing 2 pieces of gear from a melee character does not make it squishier then counter parts. It is kinda of entertaining actually.

Popularity =/= strength or viability of a build. Facts mean nothing if you can't arrive at the proper conclusion from reading them.

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yamface wrote:

Have you tried using the trade website? I'm going to only say this once: if you think buying a rare item with high life and resists is too much money, you don't know how to play the game.

Still not a single example, amazing really.

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Because you are. None of those quotes mean anything. You asked for a 4ex build, you have done nothing but complain about the price ever since. You sir have been moving the goalposts ever since. If you haven't moved the goalposts then what would of actually happened was you would've stopped arguing over it the first pastebin you were given.

Must be living in different world then you. You have provided estimates of your builds not me. When you do i point out that the builds you have are no where near the price you say they are. You get angry and fail to provide even remotely adequate proof that they are.

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Popularity =/= strength or viability of a build. Facts mean nothing if you can't arrive at the proper conclusion from reading them.

This has nothing to do with popularity, hollow palm was EXTREMELY popular, for frak sakes Mathil was making one that alone makes it supper popular, but other than that i saw at least half of top streamers attempt at making one. But when you try to make one turns out that is not nearly as good as you make it out to be and in order to have adequate defenses you have quite a price tag. And even when you do, they are still noticeably lower then non hollow palm counter parts, for well obvious reasons. But do have higher damage, which again no one said they can't do.

P.S. The berserker in you profile has 13 cold res BTW, so hardly a valid example.

Once again popularity =/= strength or viability of a build. Yet here you are again trying to line up popularity with... strength and viability of a build.

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Must be living in different world then you. You have provided estimates of your builds not me. When you do i point out that the builds you have are no where near the price you say they are. You get angry and fail to provide even remotely adequate proof that they are.

Uh.. ok. So that build falls under your 4ex bugdet. So you lose. I guess all of that whining from you was for nothing then.

edit: oh and for the record that berserker is cold res capped. I've been swapping some things around for certain bosses, he normally doesnt wear loreweave but he does for phoenix

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yamface wrote:

Once again popularity =/= strength or viability of a build. Yet here you are again trying to line up popularity with... strength and viability of a build.

Sure it does, if build was popular and was attempted by plenty of people and yet you can't find a single strong example that is VERY relevant. The only reason s strong build can't be found on ladder is due to extreme unpopularity, that is clearly not the case here.

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Uh.. ok. So that build falls under your 4ex bugdet. So you lose. I guess all of that whining from you was for nothing then.

edit: oh and for the record that berserker is cold res capped. I've been swapping some things around for certain bosses, he normally doesnt wear loreweave but he does for phoenix

I dissagree even 4ex for your last iteration but hell with you lets assume that is the price tag, Even tho yet again just one cluster is worth 3ex, you have never changed, and i am sure that if you actually try to buy it you ll end up at 10 ex easy. But hell lets assume it is 4ex. That is quite impressive for 4ex build but no where near heralds in terms of clear and tankiness, and the only reason herald build is worth 20ex now is due to the EXTREME poularity (which also is the reason you can get other builds way cheaper then usual). In terms of rarity of the gear (ignoring the jewel) it is quite similar. And hell you can make even cheaper versions with less dps but nearly same tankiness.

And further investment into the build can easily increase it's dps for sure, but increasing tankiness is quite problematic, leaving still squishy.

For exact same price tag you can make lacerate glad, with noticeably higher defenses and much better clear. While it's single target might be lower on POB, due extremely high uptime nature of the bleed, it is not only much closer to cyclone but also much safer since you can concentrate on dodge 80% of the time. And yet lacerate is NOT broken? and palm is.

Palm pretty decent possibly even good but hardly broken, when you compare it similar builds.

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Deathfairy wrote:

Sure it does, if build was popular and was attempted by plenty of people and yet you can't find a single strong example that is VERY relevant. The only reason s strong build can't be found on ladder is due to extreme unpopularity, that is clearly not the case here.

But.. popularity has nothing to do with a builds strength or viability. How many times does this need to be said? Have you ever gave an actual reason why you think popularity has any relevance other than just guesswork?

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Deathfairy wrote:

I dissagree even 4ex for your last iteration but hell with you lets assume that is the price tag, Even tho yet again just one cluster is worth 3ex, you have never changed, and i am sure that if you actually try to buy it you ll end up at 10 ex easy. But hell lets assume it is 4ex. That is quite impressive for 4ex build but no where near heralds in terms of clear and tankiness, and the only reason herald build is worth 20ex now is due to the EXTREME poularity (which also is the reason you can get other builds way cheaper then usual). In terms of rarity of the gear (ignoring the jewel) it is quite similar. And hell you can make even cheaper versions with less dps but nearly same tankiness.

Can I ask why you're too lazy to just swap out deep cuts? That notable is the only reason that jewel has any value... if you like, I dunno, spend 5 seconds swapping out that 1 notable you can see the build still does more damage than your 0 voices heralder. Like what is the problem here? Are you not able to do this yourself?

Your 0 voice heralders does not have the same clearing power that this hollow palm build has, that was the entire point of me bringing this up. I specifically picked hollow palm because it's SUPPOSED to be less tankier than your usual build, and I showed you how it can outperform 0 voices herald abusers. You simply don't have the damage to do simulacrums and delirious maps the way that a hollow palm can do. It doesn't matter if you have 80% phys reduction and 90% resists, your low damage is getting you swarmed by hits much more than someone that is 1 shotting everything and keeping most enemies out with its lions roar knockback. And I know half of your heralder dps comes from smite, which is NOT something you can simply spam when youre getting swarmed. Even when you talk about bossing, what exactly is the 1 thing that kills people against a8 sirus? Its the die beam. And guess what your 0 voice heralder cant survive that. At least the hollow palm build can survive that as long as it blocks 2+ of the beam ticks. There's a whole bunch of challenging shit that hollow palm can do better that a bare minimum invested herald build can't. You're too tunneled on the fact that herald abusers have 90% resists and big phys reductions that you can't see how mediocre a low invested build is in comparison to anything else.

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Deathfairy wrote:

For exact same price tag you can make lacerate glad, with noticeably higher defenses and much better clear. While it's single target might be lower on POB, due extremely high uptime nature of the bleed, it is not only much closer to cyclone but also much safer since you can concentrate on dodge 80% of the time. And yet lacerate is NOT broken? and palm is.

Palm pretty decent possibly even good but hardly broken, when you compare it similar builds.

Lacerate glad does not have higher defenses. I don't know if you played a gladiator before but the ascendency nodes don't allow you to take both bleed explosions and take the block nodes without a sharp drop in damage. When steelmage hit the worlds first lv100 ssfhc, his only defense layer was fortify and outmatch+outlast.

Lastly: I never said hollow palm was broken.

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yamface wrote:

But.. popularity has nothing to do with a builds strength or viability. How many times does this need to be said? Have you ever gave an actual reason why you think popularity has any relevance other than just guesswork?

I just explained to you why, i guess you missed it, read it again.

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Can I ask why you're too lazy to just swap out deep cuts? That notable is the only reason that jewel has any value... if you like, I dunno, spend 5 seconds swapping out that 1 notable you can see the build still does more damage than your 0 voices heralder. Like what is the problem here? Are you not able to do this yourself?

This is just ONE reason i don't agree with 4ex estimate. i have provided plenty and you have yet to provide any proof other wise yet, you just try to insult.

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Your 0 voice heralders does not have the same clearing power that this hollow palm build has, that was the entire point of me bringing this up. I specifically picked hollow palm because it's SUPPOSED to be less tankier than your usual build, and I showed you how it can outperform 0 voices herald abusers. You simply don't have the damage to do simulacrums and delirious maps the way that a hollow palm can do.

The fact that you think higher damage is faster clear while having 100 in HC SSF is mind boggling to me. And that is the ONLY thing you showed, which no one even argued with you about.
I cleared 20/20 on my herald stacker in HC ssf, so i am confused when you tell me i don't have the damage, that is just a lie.
I watched Mathil clear 20/20 oh his hollow palm, and that dude not only knows his stuff but he has amazing game mechanics which i don't and holy hell it was sketchy, while i cleared 20/20 on herald without his game mechanics.

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Lacerate glad does not have higher defenses. I don't know if you played a gladiator before but the ascendency nodes don't allow you to take both bleed explosions and take the block nodes without a sharp drop in damage. When steelmage hit the worlds first lv100 ssfhc, his only defense layer was fortify and outmatch+outlast.

Lastly: I never said hollow palm was broken.

1) You don't need both max block nodes, just the spell block, and you can take it with explosions, unlike hollow palm you get 25-30% block from shield so you have a lot more wiggle room on block nodes. You do not need Violent retaliation. Steelmage needed speed so he took Chalenger node, which gives a WHOPING 20% attack speed, that is so important for lacerate... For race to 100 sure, for every one else no so much. Technically it gives 20% movement too but that build is leapslaming.

2) That is what you were trying to show for past 3 pages, the simple fact that you were trying to show it is better then herald stacking which is accepted as a broken build by community and GGG and has proven itself as such in china in SSF, means you implied it is broken. Unless your entire point is that herald build is not broken in which case bye, i have nothing else to say to you.

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Deathfairy wrote:

I just explained to you why, i guess you missed it, read it again.

You used circular reasoning to explain why popularity is relevant. So no, you didn't.

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Deathfairy wrote:

This is just ONE reason i don't agree with 4ex estimate. i have provided plenty and you have yet to provide any proof other wise yet, you just try to insult.

Yes and I told you already that complaining about high life + resist rares is a joke.

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Deathfairy wrote:

The fact that you think higher damage is faster clear while having 100 in HC SSF is mind boggling to me. And that is the ONLY thing you showed, which no one even argued with you about.

You quoted "clearing power", then talk about clear speed. Good work.

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Deathfairy wrote:

I cleared 20/20 on my herald stacker in HC ssf, so i am confused when you tell me i don't have the damage, that is just a lie.

And all of your herald builds are dead.

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Deathfairy wrote:

I watched Mathil clear 20/20 oh his hollow palm, and that dude not only knows his stuff but he has amazing game mechanics which i don't and holy hell it was sketchy, while i cleared 20/20 on herald without his game mechanics.

Uh ok I saw that build he played. It was nowhere near the build I gave you. Mathil tries to glass cannon as much as he thinks he can get away with, using him as a gold standard is hilarious.

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Deathfairy wrote:

1) You don't need both max block nodes, just the spell block, and you can take it with explosions, unlike hollow palm you get 25-30% block from shield so you have a lot more wiggle room on block nodes. You do not need Violent retaliation. Steelmage needed speed so he took Chalenger node, which gives a WHOPING 20% attack speed, that is so important for lacerate... For race to 100 sure, for every one else no so much. Technically it gives 20% movement too but that build is leapslaming.

You obviously didn't play lacerate glad before or you didn't read that node correctly. That is 20% MORE attack speed. That is more important for lacerate than you think you understand.

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Deathfairy wrote:

2) That is what you were trying to show for past 3 pages, the simple fact that you were trying to show it is better then herald stacking which is accepted as a broken build by community and GGG and has proven itself as such in china in SSF, means you implied it is broken. Unless your entire point is that herald build is not broken in which case bye, i have nothing else to say to you.

I told you very specifically that bare minimum investment herald stacking is mediocre. Your multiple dead characters is proof that is not unkillable. You just don't understand do you. I know after all this you're going to keep farming up that herald build, then die again. Then farm up that herald build, then die. It's never going to connect with your brainwaves the obvious is it.