Please limit Voices and Split Personality to 1

Wouldn't be hard to produce pob link then would it? Pardon me for me for taking your word for it. So far you provide no evidence to your claims. Even without guardians there are plenty 25k+ es chieftains.

Assuming you can make a 31k es jug in top end gear as opposed to 30k chieftain last league, is that really a problem?

Thing is i am not saying your wrong, I do not know these builds enough, ssf life is a bit restricting. but you need to provide actual reasoning for your stance so far you have not.

As for heralds being outclassed lol for the same budget? Good luck providing a single example. Again 3 sets of herald gear in SSF, (no voices, and frankly that is unlucky, i did about 40 simulacrums). And i am not no where remotely close to even basic int stacking gear.

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Deathfairy wrote:

Wouldn't be hard to produce pob link then would it? Pardon me for me for taking your word for it. So far you provide no evidence to your claims. Even without guardians there are plenty 25k+ es chieftains.

Assuming you can make a 31k es jug in top end gear as opposed to 30k chieftain last league, is that really a problem?

Thing is i am not saying your wrong, I do not know these builds enough, ssf life is a bit restricting. but you need to provide actual reasoning for your stance so far you have not.

As for heralds being outclassed lol for the same budget? Good luck providing a single example. Again 3 sets of herald gear in SSF, (no voices, and frankly that is unlucky, i did about 40 simulacrums). And i am not no where remotely close to even basic int stacking gear.

You never really asked for a pob until just now...

https://pastebin.com/c0ez1GfN

The chieftains youre looking at cant get that much es anymore because shapers touch got nerfed. The fact that ggg tried nerfing this stuff is all you need to know that this isnt supposed to be a thing. Being unkillable is simply bad game design.

For some reason I sincerely doubt you managed to farm 3 separate sets of chayula amulets and prism guardians. Regardless no voices herald builds are neither unkillable nor are they anything special in dps. Literally buying a hollow palm technique jewel for 20c and stacking dex churns multiple times more dps than bare minimum herald builds.

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yamface wrote:

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Deathfairy wrote:

Wouldn't be hard to produce pob link then would it? Pardon me for me for taking your word for it. So far you provide no evidence to your claims. Even without guardians there are plenty 25k+ es chieftains.

Assuming you can make a 31k es jug in top end gear as opposed to 30k chieftain last league, is that really a problem?

Thing is i am not saying your wrong, I do not know these builds enough, ssf life is a bit restricting. but you need to provide actual reasoning for your stance so far you have not.

As for heralds being outclassed lol for the same budget? Good luck providing a single example. Again 3 sets of herald gear in SSF, (no voices, and frankly that is unlucky, i did about 40 simulacrums). And i am not no where remotely close to even basic int stacking gear.

You never really asked for a pob until just now...

https://pastebin.com/c0ez1GfN

The chieftains youre looking at cant get that much es anymore because shapers touch got nerfed. The fact that ggg tried nerfing this stuff is all you need to know that this isnt supposed to be a thing. Being unkillable is simply bad game design.

For some reason I sincerely doubt you managed to farm 3 separate sets of chayula amulets and prism guardians. Regardless no voices herald builds are neither unkillable nor are they anything special in dps. Literally buying a hollow palm technique jewel for 20c and stacking dex churns multiple times more dps than bare minimum herald builds.

1) This gear is quite insane, i did over 100 simululacrums i saw 2 split personalities, and none of them even has int. This is top gear. I sold vaal regalia just about like this for 22 ex. Being near unkillable at 200 ex budget is not really a problem in my book, but that is matter of opinion obviously. But even then the dps on that build is 3 mil (according to molten strike dps calculator) with quite trash clear speed. There is A LOT of dps sacrificed for this defense level, not the case for heralds.

That said this does seem a bit on high side, the build you listed has like 10 split personalities. While this might need a look, it most definitively not on the level proposed. If this level of gear would have 20-22k es IMHO it would be perfectly reasonable.

2) You can doubt all you want, or you can open my profile and see my 2 SSF standard guardians with their set up. I also have 1 more set which i will wear once i reach 90.

3) Hollow palm glass canon comparison is quite lol.

4) Both of my heralds have 2-3 mill shaper dps and are extremely tanky. Just turns out you still need to look for reflect... And more then capable to clearing ALL end game on HC even with my pathetic skill level. No other build has ever gave me hope of clearing all content on HC SSF before.

His gear is good.. but it's nowhere near maxed out. The guy that plays that character knows he can get much more es. That isn't the ceiling.

And hollow palm is not a glass cannon build.. what? Mate I'm pretty sure I can theorycraft a hollow palm build in like 5 minutes that has way above average defenses and can do 2-3x your heralders dps. And the best part is the entire build will cost about as much as just 1 of your herald jewels.

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yamface wrote:

His gear is good.. but it's nowhere near maxed out. The guy that plays that character knows he can get much more es. That isn't the ceiling.

And hollow palm is not a glass cannon build.. what? Mate I'm pretty sure I can theorycraft a hollow palm build in like 5 minutes that has way above average defenses and can do 2-3x your heralders dps. And the best part is the entire build will cost about as much as just 1 of your herald jewels.

Please do theorycraft one, for the price of 4 ex pls i dare you. Unless in your mind average defenses are 4k hp 2k armor 50% dodge.

What is the ceiling, yet again I AM NOT SAYING HE IS WRONG and it might need a nerf, but you need ACTUAL numbers not random words. How much higher can you go, how much budget would it take. You have to compare applies to apples oranges to oranges.

Also while we at it i took metamoprh guardians with 30k+ es and converted them to 3.10 tree, they STILL have 28k es+ top guy still has 38k. So if you want to compare top end gear compare it with top end gear.

budget doesn t matter in a game controlled by market and economy. You need just few players abusing something to have big ripples on the game.

Unless GGG is telling us officially that the game should be played SSF then high end players will always dictate POE balance system because this is them who farm-abuse the economy.

You ll get 50-100 players on server having min maxe build, it s enough for them to fuck up the whole economy if they are immortal or whatever broken combination they found out.

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Deathfairy wrote:

Please do theorycraft one, for the price of 4 ex pls i dare you. Unless in your mind average defenses are 4k hp 2k armor 50% dodge.

4ex? I just made something that costs not even 100 chaos... https://pastebin.com/vhBUv01A

Not only are the defenses above average, this thing can do simulacrums and a8 sirus more consistently than your 0 voices heralders.

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Deathfairy wrote:

What is the ceiling, yet again I AM NOT SAYING HE IS WRONG and it might need a nerf, but you need ACTUAL numbers not random words. How much higher can you go, how much budget would it take. You have to compare applies to apples oranges to oranges.

This is so irrelevant.. this mechanic is broken as-is, stating it can go further was nothing more than a cherry on top.

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Deathfairy wrote:

Also while we at it i took metamoprh guardians with 30k+ es and converted them to 3.10 tree, they STILL have 28k es+ top guy still has 38k. So if you want to compare top end gear compare it with top end gear.

Once again shapers touch got nerfed. Also his gear is not top end.. you're comparing someone's good gear with another league's pre-nerf top end gear and you're somehow arriving that they got to the same es values which btw works against you because that implies split personalities are just as strong as the very items and ascendencies that were nerfed just last league.

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yamface wrote:

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Deathfairy wrote:

Please do theorycraft one, for the price of 4 ex pls i dare you. Unless in your mind average defenses are 4k hp 2k armor 50% dodge.

4ex? I just made something that costs not even 100 chaos... https://pastebin.com/vhBUv01A

This gear is no where remotely 100c, perfect rolls on hp and dex on every piece. And then on top of that you somehow need to fit in 160 resistances (assuming perfectly balanced, in reality more like another 200 res). You just posted a nearly perfect hollow palm gear and called it 100c lol.

Your large cluster jewel is 3ex just by itself.

But even in perfect hp gear level 100 to boot and you still only have 6.5k hp. Reality is that there is a whooping ONE person on poe.ninja with over 6.5k hp and one with with nothing. In reality you hp is going to be a whole lot closer to 5k if that at lvl 90, as well as no where near max block.

That said at a 100 with 6.5k hp and max block and 6 mil dps that is a good build. Nothing earth shattering i might add, but solid, similar to pretty much any other impale cyclone at lvl 100 and ok gear. Sound perfectly fine to me.

There is a reason highest level with hollow palm in HC is 97. Your gear is absolutely unrealistic and has perfect life rolls (outside rings but then you have to fit in even MORE resistance somehow)

Compare hollow palm builds to lacerate max block.
lacerate builds have more HP and and armor and better clear.
Hollow palm has better single target dps (not by huge margin because bleed has much better uptime then cyclone does.)

So these 2 builds are VERY comparable. and yet one is broken and other one is perfectly fine lawl?

So I've been trying to figure it out, I give up though. What's so busted about Split Personality intelligence jewels? Making a full trek across the tree will give you like 20 intelligence max, that's such a waste of a jewel slot.

Edit: Yeah, 30 is as high as it can get, that's just crazy bad. You can get almost that much and other stuff from a regular jewel.

Edit again: Oh my god, "per allocated passive", this keeps multiplying doesn't it? Lol, hype.

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yamface wrote:

This is so irrelevant.. this mechanic is broken as-is, stating it can go further was nothing more than a cherry on top.

Broken how... that part you missing it that you saying it is does not make it so, you need provide reasoning. I am not the one who brought up his gear improvements. So using argument "oh that is not even most you can do with this" is ok to use and not irrelevant and asking how much higher can you go is? Lawl.

Even with nerfed shaper's touch he still has 28k es, same as your boi, and that gear and tree is not optimized for new tree and clusters so it is hardly top end. You claiming your example gear is not top end, then please provide top end gear character, so we can you know compare apples to apples. What you have provided right now is :

Hey this build is broken it has 28k es, same as int stacking guardian AFTER nerf. Assuming the nerf was correct and brought power of guardians down to the level GGG expects them to, so far you have not shown that split personality is any better then CURRENTLY NERFED int stacking guardian. And even if it is better, it is VERY important to understand by how much. 10-20% might not even be an issue at all the game has permanent power creep near every build got stronger with cluster jewels, 40-50 might be. You have to make decisions based on data not emotions.