Noticed a strong buzz all around promoting pay to win china servers

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NexiieQT wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

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NexiieQT wrote:

What's so pay to win about chinese PoE? Revive token can only be used once, and only for a character before 95. Pets only auto pick up low tier currency, excluding chaos. What else?

I think there's a backpack too, increasing your character's inventory. And unlike stash tabs, this isn't a "one-time" purchase, but something you pay for each league. So, again, unlike stash tabs, you have to keep paying, over and over again, to get the same advantages as other players, making it far more P2W.

It's kinda funny, though. People are paining GGG as the big, bad P2W-wolf in every thread about monetization, yet; people are screaming for the Chinese P2W-elements.

People need to step back, and learn the difference between "this game needs" and "I want".

What's so "winning" about bigger inventory? Pick up more 6 sockets? Maybe it helps with early league but nowadays leagues are so rewarding you are completely fine with the default inventory size. More inventory size is just extra convenience. Remember that picking up more loot slows you down as well and result in less currency/hour, as your clearing speed increases.

You are correct.

GGG would consider it p2w for reasons which are more historical than anything. (Long story, and not particularly interesting, so I won't bore you with it.)

In the current state of the game increasing the size of your inventory offers very little benefit. And for that reason alone I wouldn't consider it a huge QoP upgrade. Some attention to itemization improvements per se would be about 2000% more effective at improving the experience for the average player.

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NexiieQT wrote:

What's so "winning" about bigger inventory? Pick up more 6 sockets? Maybe it helps with early league but nowadays leagues are so rewarding you are completely fine with the default inventory size. More inventory size is just extra convenience. Remember that picking up more loot slows you down as well and result in less currency/hour, as your clearing speed increases.

I didn't call it more "winning", I called it more P2W, as in more stuff you "have to" pay for in order get more "QoL", as people call it. This is a clear cut case of something you get used to, and feel forced to buy each league. And unlike stash tabs, you actually have to purchase it each league.

Of course, if they just increased the inventory space for everyone for free, that would be a completely different situation. But people aren't asking for that. They are asking for "what the Chinese client has", because it is "so much better".

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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NexiieQT wrote:

What's so "winning" about bigger inventory? Pick up more 6 sockets? Maybe it helps with early league but nowadays leagues are so rewarding you are completely fine with the default inventory size. More inventory size is just extra convenience. Remember that picking up more loot slows you down as well and result in less currency/hour, as your clearing speed increases.

You are correct.

GGG would consider it p2w for reasons which are more historical than anything. (Long story, and not particularly interesting, so I won't bore you with it.)

In the current state of the game increasing the size of your inventory offers very little benefit. And for that reason alone I wouldn't consider it a huge QoP upgrade. Some attention to itemization improvements per se would be about 2000% more effective at improving the experience for the average player.

Increased inventory size is a major advantage, not a minor, there's absolutely no doubt about that. Inventory size is even more P2W than increasing the max maps portals number.
It would just be another brick in the severe* pay to win game design, which seems inevitable.

*we already are with tabs, but it's still accessible for most budgets.

With such logic you will have like 20 or 50 differents kinds of advantage for a total cost of xxxx $ and only very few players will be able to get it.

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Phrazz wrote:

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NexiieQT wrote:

What's so "winning" about bigger inventory? Pick up more 6 sockets? Maybe it helps with early league but nowadays leagues are so rewarding you are completely fine with the default inventory size. More inventory size is just extra convenience. Remember that picking up more loot slows you down as well and result in less currency/hour, as your clearing speed increases.

I didn't call it more "winning", I called it more P2W, as in more stuff you "have to" pay for in order get more "QoL", as people call it. This is a clear cut case of something you get used to, and feel forced to buy each league. And unlike stash tabs, you actually have to purchase it each league.

Of course, if they just increased the inventory space for everyone for free, that would be a completely different situation. But people aren't asking for that. They are asking for "what the Chinese client has", because it is "so much better".

It's pay2convenience, just like paying for more stash tabs. Only difference is for inventory size boost it's recurring payment, which is worse sure but at the end of the day, you're not really needed to get them especially once you're used to the default inventory size which is aplenty and starts to play optimally (not picking up every junk that drops in maps).

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NexiieQT wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

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NexiieQT wrote:

What's so "winning" about bigger inventory? Pick up more 6 sockets? Maybe it helps with early league but nowadays leagues are so rewarding you are completely fine with the default inventory size. More inventory size is just extra convenience. Remember that picking up more loot slows you down as well and result in less currency/hour, as your clearing speed increases.

I didn't call it more "winning", I called it more P2W, as in more stuff you "have to" pay for in order get more "QoL", as people call it. This is a clear cut case of something you get used to, and feel forced to buy each league. And unlike stash tabs, you actually have to purchase it each league.

Of course, if they just increased the inventory space for everyone for free, that would be a completely different situation. But people aren't asking for that. They are asking for "what the Chinese client has", because it is "so much better".

It's pay2convenience, just like paying for more stash tabs. Only difference is for inventory size boost it's recurring payment, which is worse sure but at the end of the day, you're not really needed to get them especially once you're used to the current inventory size and starts to play optimally (not picking up every junk that drops in maps).

You cant advance with 4 tabs today. Maybe it was possible the very first years of the game.

"convenience" is a senseless buzzword.

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NexiieQT wrote:

It's pay2convenience.

Sure, we can discuss semantics all day. I don't really care if it's "winning" or "convenience".

But it's something you have to pay for over and over, to get the same experience you had last league. That is dangerously close to predatory business. The one thing that makes me be OK with stash tabs, is the fact that they are a one-time purchase. If you were "forced" to buy them each league, I wouldn't be playing this game.

So I don't care what we call it. I care about the implementation.

And when it comes to inventory space, there will always be a line, and always people asking for more. Hell, some people will be asking for more, until we have unlimited inventory space. What is enough? Where does it go from "convenience" to "stupid"? Where does it go from the game trying to limit you for balancing reasons, to "I don't care, I just what more so I don't have to make choices?"

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Universalis wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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NexiieQT wrote:

What's so "winning" about bigger inventory? Pick up more 6 sockets? Maybe it helps with early league but nowadays leagues are so rewarding you are completely fine with the default inventory size. More inventory size is just extra convenience. Remember that picking up more loot slows you down as well and result in less currency/hour, as your clearing speed increases.

You are correct.

GGG would consider it p2w for reasons which are more historical than anything. (Long story, and not particularly interesting, so I won't bore you with it.)

In the current state of the game increasing the size of your inventory offers very little benefit. And for that reason alone I wouldn't consider it a huge QoP upgrade. Some attention to itemization improvements per se would be about 2000% more effective at improving the experience for the average player.

Increased inventory size is a major advantage, not a minor, there's absolutely no doubt about that. Inventory size is even more P2W than increasing the max maps portals number.
It would just be another brick in the severe* pay to win game design, which seems inevitable.

*we already are with tabs, but it's still accessible for most budgets.

With such logic you will have like 20 or 50 differents kinds of advantage for a total cost of xxxx $ and only very few players will be able to get it.

Increased inventory size is a major advantage, 3 or 4 years ago, when league mechanics were not so rewarding that you'd actually pick up more things, like maybe for chaos recipe. It's a minor advantage these days. Chaos recipe quickly falls off after first few days, you can make a case for 6 sockets but 6 sockets are like a chaos on average, not that big of a deal leaving few behind if your inventory is somehow full. Most valuable loot are currency and div, all are stackable 1x1 loot.

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Universalis wrote:

You cant advance with 4 tabs today. Maybe it was possible the very first years of the game.

"convenience" is a senseless buzzword.

So is "p2win," at least how it's being used around here and the POE reddit recently.

Selling convenience and customization is how GGG feeds their beast. Not one single thing they sell is p2w in the slightest unless your personal definition has been stretched to include anything you have to actually purchase.

Premium tabs are not p2w. That loot pet is not p2w. Auction tabs are not p2w. Not even the revive coins are p2w though I would call them predatory. All of these things (and the rest of it I didn't mention) are convenience items, nothing more. You can play the game and accomplish everything in it without spending one penny on any of it. Will dropping some cash for this stuff make your time in the game "easier?" In most cases, yes, but it won't get you to level 100 or fill your tabs with uber elder fragments automagically.

You can't buy 6-links or GG weapons or fully leveled awakened gems. You can't buy key fragments or maps. There is nothing you can spend money on that provides one tiny bit of power or actual in-game advantage over someone else. People need to stop trying to expand the definition of p2w to suit their personal idea of "fairness" or whatever. No matter how much you throw at GGG, you'll win exactly nothing.

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Phrazz wrote:

If you were "forced" to buy them each league, I wouldn't be playing this game.

Nice supporter pack badges you got there. It would be a shame if they came with points to spend on stuff in the shop.

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Makillda wrote:

Nice supporter pack badges you got there. It would be a shame if they came with points to spend on stuff in the shop.

Your point is useless.

I'm supporting the game because I want to, not because I feel I "have to". I got all the stash tabs I need several years ago. I would NOT be supporting the game, if they decided to add stuff you'd have to purchase each league, to get the same experience as last league.

If I had to purchase stash tabs each league? I would have exactly 0 badges.
If I had to purchase my MTXs each league? I would have exactly 0 badges.
If they added a backpack feature you'd had to purchase each league? I would never buy a pack again.