Instant death with an amount of remaining mana too high to fit the MoM keystone value

Hey there.

This could probably be a better fit in the bug report section, however if there is an element that I am missing that would explain the reason of why such an odd amount of mana was left on my character, it's much more likely to be pointed out by someone here.


Yesterday (probably around 21 hours ago), I had my character in SSF HC (name=burninGaijin) instantly killed (I am not saying one shot even though it felt like one, as I cannot tell for sure) in a red map without any difficult mods (poison was the only dmg mod I think, I have positive chaos resistance and poison does not kill instantly anyway), by a metamorph that was moderately built (most pieces were normals, one was rare, I don't remember crit. in it but I could be wrong about this one, almost no extra damage for sure).

~9700 buffer evaporated in a split second ( I think I had ghost shrouds on as a Trickster, not completely sure ).

I say 9700 buffer even though my character had about 10500 buffer actually, because there was ~800 mana remaining on the death screen.

The character has ~5800 life, ~1900 ES and ~2800 unreserved mana, using the Mind over Matter keystone :

"

30% of Damage is taken from Mana before Life

which means that an ideal ratio of mana/life would be ~0.43.
Mine is ~ 0.48, which means that in the case of a literal one shot (or a serie of several hit killing the character instantly), there should be a bit of mana remaining ...

but not 800.
If 30% of mana is taken before life and I had 800 mana left of a 2800 available mana pool, it means that the damage (after the ES was depleted) on my life pool should have been ~4666.

But my character was DEAD, thrown to the standard league.

If I was to take a hit that would remove 5800 life from this character, it should have removed (~5800/30)*70 = ~2500 mana from my available mana pool, leaving me with ~300 mana, NOT 800.


Even though I have no actual idea of what the fuck killed my character, this clearly means that something odd happened there, if I had still 800 mana left available, my character should not be dead (and patient reaper's sustain + my flasks could have potentially made it survive the fight, and I could have potentially logged out of this fucked up encounter).

I wish I took a screenshot, but I was quite disgusted at the moment and I ended up just shutting the game down, and the only reason why I reopened it today is to check the buffer numbers to write this post.


PS : for a little while, I have been often thinking that "this will be my last character" and ended up rerolling something that I find interesting to play potentially. I haven't supported the game since Delve since I strongly disagree with many things happening with it at GGG, although I was kind of tempted by the unique stash tab ...
But this time ? Nop, I was simply disgusted as this f. joke of a balance, since I don't have anymore character slots, that a character that I was happy with and genuinely enjoyed playing got screwed this way ... I don't feel like playing anymore.
I would like to tell my thought directly without holding back but that would clearly break the code of conduct.

I don't think that the game will become better anymore as some people at GGG have clearly no idea what the f. they have been and are doing, but this feeling of disgust is surely something that many other have shared or will share, so if there is a bug (my guess is that there was one) that causes what happened to my character last night, it should *probably* get fixed

I think new Delirium mobs ignore all mechanics... Plenty of time I saw that my mana was not consumed before life.

I had a similar experience. My friend was watching over my shoulder waiting for me to complete the map. Cluster of deadly enemies was off screen, died twice to them already, jumped in and dropped a brand and jumped out and ran away.

I checked there were no dots active on my character full hp es and mana, walked a few steps towards the pack to attempt the same thing.

I died instantly with no enemies on screen no visible reason for taking damage, my friend asked me what the f. happened there was nothing that killed you why are you dead. He monitored the latency graphs at the top the entire time with no ping or framerate issues.

We need a death recap in POE, but I cannot see one being implemented without a massive impact on the game performance.

I think your calculation is wrong. ES doesn't matter since MoM only protects life. Assuming you have 5800 life, 1900 ES and 2800 mana, the 1900 ES would be removed first. With your flasks up you'd be around 19k evasion, which means a Ghost Shroud would recover 760 ES on hit. The Ghost Shrouds would only be necessary if it wasn't actually a one-shot, though. The 43% thing shouldn't confuse you, it's just an effective range so you are still able to use skills and regen in time.

Your one-shot threshold is: 5800 + (5800 * 0,3) + 1900 = 9440
With full mana and full life, a hit that'd reduce you to zero life would leave about 1000 mana (since 30% of 5800 is 1740 and ypi jave 2800 unreserved mana).

Therefore, I don't really think that you were one-shot, at least not in the literal sense. ;-)

Still a shame, looked like a cool character

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

Your one-shot threshold is: 5800 + (5800 * 0,3) + 1900 = 9440
With full mana and full life, a hit that'd reduce you to zero life would leave about 1000 mana (since 30% of 5800 is 1740 and ypi jave 2800 unreserved mana).

Therefore, I don't really think that you were one-shot, at least not in the literal sense. ;-)

I'm pretty sure that your calculations are wrong thougn, a hit that would hit for 9440 hit would do :

1) remove the 1900 ES => 7540
2) 7540 should get reduced by 30% that would hit the mana pool instead :
5278 dmg on the life pool
2262 dmg on the mana pool

That would leave me with about 500 HPs and 600 Mana.

Your calculations implies that I would take 100% of the damage on the life buffer + an extra 30% on the mana pool without accounting for the fact that it get deduced from the health pool.
I think that it should look like :
5800 + (5800 * (30/70)) + 1900 = 10185

or am I missing something ?

I was probably not one shot, but the amount of ES or ES recovery from the shrouds should not matter regarding the amount of mana left, should it ?
That's really the thing that made me create a thread, the amount of mana left post-death.

You are right on the calculation!

There are a lot of things going into this and it's a shame we don't have a screenshot / a video recap of it happening. As you play a Trickster, you probably had the life recovery from Patient Reaper up. If some enemies died to the DoT you'd have recovered %life and mana too. Really difficult to assess what happened and make a judgement. :-/

How instantaneous was the death? Maybe some mana on kill or natural regen made it in between the shotgunning?

Also lol this is why everyone went vms in metamorph. Those meta bosses dick you without warning.

"

yamface wrote:

How instantaneous was the death? Maybe some mana on kill or natural regen made it in between the shotgunning?

Also lol this is why everyone went vms in metamorph. Those meta bosses dick you without warning.

I would say less than 0.25 sec, maybe ?

It is true that patient reaper does regenerate more mana than life, but given how the character died pretty much instantly ....

I would also mean that quite an obscene amount of damage was dealt in that ridiculously short window ( given the conditions of the rip ), if there was enough regen to give 500 extra mana post-death T__T

From my experience, I suspect that there are some bugs lingering in the game that kills you instantly.
1 bug I suspect is that one of the beyond bosses 1 shots you no matter what with their nova projectile in delve.
This occasion might be one of those. Just a guess but this happens to me too.

On some occasions i experienced that too, getting killed without my mana getting touched in an adequate matter considering mind over matter.

could it be that over time effects like desecrated ground for example dont work too well with that? if so, maybe this dealt the "killing blow".