Exp Loss is freaking unbalanced

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thepmrc wrote:

I have done both. Leveled to 98 multiple times in D2, never complained about dieing... got frustrated? yes. motivated? yes. I have leveled above 85 in PoE and have died (3 times on 85 at 90%....) did I complain about the death penalty? No, I played more carefully and made sure to not die again.

That statement was not directed to you, why are you answering it?

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thepmrc wrote:

Second, at no point was I bragging. I was simply stating the fact that as long as you people feel that default should be played like a glass cannon scrubfest we will NEVER see eye to eye. I play default and I want it to be challenging.

Right

Because right now the game is a hp tank scrubfest, and you seem to be completely fine with that.

I have no reason why we should demonize glass cannon builds over full tank builds that we have currently. You seem to have something against glass cannons (did they rape your kids or something?) but nothing against full tank builds

Believe it or not, both of these games have "scrubfest" tactics. D3 has them, so does PoE. Also as another point of reference, only the glass cannons in D3 built like glass cannons, classes like Monk or Barbarian were forced to tank (you could get damage with those classes, but in later difficulties you just got one shot).

The reason why D3 was bad had little to do with the glass cannon concept, I have no idea why you keep on harping on about it.

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thepmrc wrote:

Third, if you don't like to lose XP when you die, try harder. Its that simple. Don't whine about how bad you are and how you can't progress because the game mechanics are broken. Get better, try again, or GTFO

For starters, this attitude is not helpful (nor is it correct)

Secondly, the main issue with the current death mechanic is its not doing what the intentions of the mechanic are designed to do, which is to prevent zerging. As I have stated earlier, zerging happens in this game, I have seen it so many times myself that I can at least claim, from personal experience, its as bad as D3. It doesn't happen as often, but its much more extreme when it is done.

The current mechanic is also an example that because its so extreme, its doing the opposite effect of what its intended

D3 had obvious anti zerging mechanics, D3's issue was the game in general (for the first 3 difficulties) was way too easy. I died 3 times as a monk when playing D3 when it was released (before the balance changes), half the time I was drunk/not playing properly/distracted

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thepmrc wrote:

first, I don't play hardcore in this game because it doesn't exist. The hardcore league in this game is a joke imho as the characters are not deleted when they die. As for your comments on Alt + F4... if it is really that easy go make a HC character, use your alt + F4 strategy when it gets difficult and see where you end up (hint: it wont be HC).

I agree with this completely, its not just ALT+F4 joke, its also things like desync. I would personally have played HC if it wasn't for the desync, I have died enough times in default due to desync that HC is a waste of time in my opinion. I have a sense of honor, and I would never ALT+F4, but the other part of HC is competition with other players, who do ALT+F4. As long as ALT+F4 exists, HC will be a joke

HC is a joke for many reasons, including ALT+F4, desyncs and it not being proper HC (character is not lost). There are also things like portal scrolls. If PoE had the portal system that D3 had, HC would be less of a joke, you wouldn't be able to just instant tele out of bad situations, you would have to take them like a man

Its also a joke because of other balance reasons in the game

wow what a bunch of major idiots saying "LOLOL lvl 70 IS LOW" you numnuts obviously didnt get the point of the post.

I want GGG answer

The exp-penalty is perfect, but what can be complained about is dying to desnynch/lag and things out of your control.

Without the penalty, people would be less careful (since there would be no risk) and skip all defensive nodes in the tree.

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deteego wrote:

Because right now the game is a hp tank scrubfest, and you seem to be completely fine with that.

I have no reason why we should demonize glass cannon builds over full tank builds that we have currently. You seem to have something against glass cannons (did they rape your kids or something?) but nothing against full tank builds

Believe it or not, both of these games have "scrubfest" tactics. D3 has them, so does PoE. Also as another point of reference, only the glass cannons in D3 built like glass cannons, classes like Monk or Barbarian were forced to tank (you could get damage with those classes, but in later difficulties you just got one shot).

ill just leave this here.

I played monk and barbarian. Considering the major survivability for both classes came from life steal and dealing HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DAMAGE A SECOND its pretty safe to say that even barb and monk were played best as glass cannons. That is why the game is garbage. Every class wants to stack as much damage as possible, everything else takes a backseat.

Path of Exile uses a different approach. Defensive statistics are paramount, as you get better at the game you can sacrifice more defense for more offense. If you suck, then yes, by all means stack nothing but HP.

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Kwonryu wrote:

The exp-penalty is perfect, but what can be complained about is dying to desnynch/lag and things out of your control.

Without the penalty, people would be less careful (since there would be no risk) and skip all defensive nodes in the tree.

This person understands.

All that needs to happen to close the current loophole that allows zerging through content in the early game is EXP debt. If you have 0% you should still lose 15% of the XP it takes to attain the next level, essentially putting you at -15% XP. Now the zerging problem you speak of is fixed and the game is not broken.

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thepmrc wrote:

ill just leave this here.

I played monk and barbarian. Considering the major survivability for both classes came from life steal and dealing HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DAMAGE A SECOND its pretty safe to say that even barb and monk were played best as glass cannons. That is why the game is garbage. Every class wants to stack as much damage as possible, everything else takes a backseat.

Path of Exile uses a different approach. Defensive statistics are paramount, as you get better at the game you can sacrifice more defense for more offense. If you suck, then yes, by all means stack nothing but HP.

So you are telling me you got through inferno in the 1.03 era with no survivability items on a monk/barb?

My bullshit detector is ringing, considering one of the reasons that Kripp is so famous is he is the first person that soloed through inferno, and the only way to do it at that time (with a barb) was stacking resists + vitality (guess what, thats typical tank). I honestly would like to hear who you dealt with plague,firetrail/arcane with no HP/resists

Monks also had to run 4 defensive abilities (invuln, heal, sacred circle) to get through inferno, and likewise had to stack defense.

Being glass cannon only worked up until endgame, and you could say the same about anything in aRPG games, but when it came to inferno, as a monk/barb, you had to stack defense if you didn't want to die in a second

exp loss is fine so long as your not outleveling the game content, which is level 76 for maximum map level iirc? (i still havent found a map over lvl 71 after 3 weeks).

Also D3 is pretty much a joke in terms of difficulty currently. You can run through inferno now half naked without a problem.

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Asmosis wrote:

exp loss is fine so long as your not outleveling the game content, which is level 76 for maximum map level iirc? (i still havent found a map over lvl 71 after 3 weeks).

Also D3 is pretty much a joke in terms of difficulty currently. You can run through inferno now half naked without a problem.

Yes but I was talking about the 1.03pre era, where it was basically mandatory to tank up as a barb/monk to get anywhere in inferno (well barb could work with just doing his ranged earthquake ability, but it would be god damn slow)

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thepmrc wrote:

All that needs to happen to close the current loophole that allows zerging through content in the early game is EXP debt. If you have 0% you should still lose 15% of the XP it takes to attain the next level, essentially putting you at -15% XP. Now the zerging problem you speak of is fixed and the game is not broken.

Eh... maybe I'm missing something here, but you seem to be advocating some form of "game suicide" here. Which... yeah, I guess that solves the problem of having a game and a bunch of players.....

Haven't read much in this thread since I left it. Posting again because I remembered how it has been suggested that people in this game like to zerg the difficult parts. Here is my opinion on zerging....

Zerging is taking on an area or boss knowing that you will die and that being part of your strategy to complete it.

I don't really think there are many people doing that in Path of Exile. What I see people doing is they know that they might die when at a certain area or boss so they finish out their leveling before taking it on. IMO that is not zerging, its just playing smart. That player is still capable of taking the area/boss on without dieing but knows that it is possible so he wisely finishes leveling first.

I think the above scenerio is far more common than a player purposefully dieing over and over again as part of their strategy because they know they CAN'T possibly complete it without dieing.

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iamstryker wrote:

Haven't read much in this thread since I left it. Posting again because I remembered how it has been suggested that people in this game like to zerg the difficult parts. Here is my opinion on zerging....

Zerging is taking on an area or boss knowing that you will die and that being part of your strategy to complete it.

I don't really think there are many people doing that in Path of Exile. What I see people doing is they know that they might die when at a certain area or boss so they finish out their leveling before taking it on. IMO that is not zerging, its just playing smart. That player is still capable of taking the area/boss on without dieing but knows that it is possible so he wisely finishes leveling first.

I think the above scenerio is far more common than a player purposefully dieing over and over again as part of their strategy because they know they CAN'T possibly complete it without dieing.

If thats your definition of zerging than it wasn't any more apparent in games like D3 either