Let's Discuss This League / Standard Trading Listing Feature

Yet another patch and nothing about this. With more and more people playing standard, it's disappointed to still have this issue.

Bump

BASIC THREAD SUMMARY FOR ANYONE JUST SEEING THIS AND DONT WANT TO SEE ALL PAGES


****DISCLAIMER***************************************************************
This thread is NOT about

1) Bots

2) Fake price listings with obvious troll prices

3) Auction House (AH) or the demand for a similar function based on in game items and not based on real money. (Marketplace)
****************************************************************************


GENERAL ISSUE - Cross League Trading / Trade listing section problem (TRADE API)

DISSCUSSION PROPOSED SOLUTION - The solution to fix this would be to disable trade listings from appearing, if the player is logged on to a char outside of the respective league's trade listing.


TL;DR - Make all online trade listings appear based on the logged in character's respective league only and with no option to toggle (Standard items appear when logged on a Standard league char); due to the loophole and problems it's caused throughout the years.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"

After extensive player feedback and internal discussion, we are disallowing cross-league trading between the long-term (Standard/Hardcore) leagues and the challenge leagues (Essence and Hardcore Essence). You can still perform cross-league trades (at your own risk) between a league and its hardcore version (Standard to Hardcore, Hardcore to Standard, Essence to Hardcore Essence or Harcore Essence to Essence).

We feel that allowing people to trade prior gametime into advantage in the new three-month leagues is an advantage akin to RMT.

This policy may change in the future, for example disallowing all cross-league trading entirely.

Edit: The same applies to race events. You can't trade items into a one-week race for example.
Lead Developer. Follow us on: Twitter | YouTube | Facebook | Contact Support if you need help!

Last edited by Chris on Oct 15, 2013, 7:47:57 PM
Last bumped on Aug 8, 2018, 5:43:12 PM


Posted by
Chris
on Oct 15, 2013, 7:47:06 PMGrinding Gear Games

TO GGG - What this issue IS about however is the fact that players in Standard league have to work 2 - 3 times harder to make simple trades, from items they have looked up online within their OWN league and that are currently shown to be online. 90% of the listings are essentially dead space due to items being shown from players outside of the league.

Also, this is outright cross league trading which is against GGG's own policy. The current way the trade system is setup, provides an outrageous disadvantage for everyone that plays Standard ; simply to accommodate players that outright refuse to switch leagues for a trade AND do not want to be bothered.

When players PM other players to buy / trade for an item, while looking on the chosen league; they should not have to run into players that are outside of that league. The item listed is within their respective league and so should be the online listings to reflect it.

My proposed solution to this issue is in 100% accordance with the Trade Manifesto and the terms of service or legal rules within the game. This eliminates 2 problems that's been abused and ignored for far far too long : Cross League trading and the option being given to use the current trade system as a loophole (via online settings / default , etc).

##############################################################################No matter how some people try to sugarcoat it or classify it in a different manner, Cross League trading is exactly what it is. Players have had the option to turn on / off their settings but in most cases refuse to and are "deadwood" within the online listings.

If a person in one league is attempting to trade with another person outside of that same league, that's what it is. Too many people are confused or trying to make excuses thinking it's not; due to no items being given in one league. It's the same concept, just another way of doing it. GGG has banned people in the past for such talk and actions trying to do it. Spoken to a few guys in global who still to this day, have another account that was banned for this offense.
#############################################################################
By having the online trade listings be strictly shown based on the league that the logged char is on, automatically with no option; gives Standard players equal footing instead of the senseless disadvantages that are current. It also helps to strengthen the effectiveness of the current official trade site on here.


***Keep in mind that there's still an overwhelming majority of players that refuse to even use the official pathofexile.com/trade ; who instead still use the third party site poe.xyz. This proposed change will NOT affect 3rd party site users so their input is irrelevant to this solution because they will continue to use 3rd party sites.***

Trading is not about having the easiest method of trade, otherwise the 3 in the disclaimer above and more would be either game legal or already implemented (see trade manifesto) which again this issue is NOT about.





=============================================================================









TO PLAYERS -

Standard league players should NOT have to work twice as hard to do simple trades, because players are ignoring the option they have to turn off the trade listings. Having to PM 15 - 25 or more people just to buy a item that's listed currently online, is just bullshit.

The common excused used is "I don't trade in Standard unless it's for x amount", which WOULD be fine if the item listed were to be for that SAME x amount. If it's not important enough to switch chars for 30 secs then it's not important enough to continue being listed. If the item isn't worth the time to trade, then it's not worth being shown. There's no way around that.


Most temp league players do not want to play on Standard league, except between temporary leagues. For the past few years, temp league players have abused the convenient options they have such as

a)Turning off their own post listings

b)Being able to trade while outside of their respective league

While it can be debated if FEW of them may have forgotten being able to control their own listings; many of them DO know and realize this but just don't care. Players should NOT have to skip over 10 + listings for their own league, because they run into postings from players that are NOT even in the same league!

"I don't switch leagues to trade unless it's for a certain amount" is the common rationalization that's being used as an excuse. If you DONT want to trade an item that YOU have posted for a certain price and you deem it as "NOT being important enough to switch over", then it's equally unimportant enough to have the same listings being shown while playing OUTSIDE of the respective league that the item(s) are posted in.


It's easy for people to say "oh then just go on to the next listing", which leads to going through 10 + different listings; ALL of them with players in temp leagues, instead of the Standard for which the item is listed in.



*******To Players (Against) - If anyone feels so strongly about wanting to trade in Standard league, then they should log on to their Standard character bottom line. No more excuses, no more false pretenses.

"I only switch over for x amount" "I don't trade during temp league" "It's too many listings to reprice" "I don't want to log in online"


CONCLUSION -

This solution wont even affect those against it, because the items will STILL appear on 3rd party trade websites due to api or whatever they use.

If the item is not worth your time to

a) switch characters
b) turn off the tab listings
c) log in to change the settings
d) change item price listings
e) turn on /dnd mode so the items don't appear

then it's not worth the time to be seen online.

*************************


This will benefit the needs of Standard league vs being the convenience option that benefits the few individuals that don't mind hopping chars to Standard for a trade.

"

WoT_Seanchan wrote:

DISSCUSSION PROPOSED SOLUTION - The solution to fix this would be to disable trade listings from appearing, if the player is logged on to a char outside of the respective league's trade listing.

I know you don't want to hear this, but that's a terrible solution. Playing in the challenge league while having items for sale in standard, with the chance that you'll get a sale and switch leagues for the trade, is a real and legitimate playing style. Removing that for the sake of some players avoiding some inconvenience would do more harm than good.

I suggested a while back that GGG put a filter on the trading site, so that the buyer can decide to filter out sellers who have items for sale in standard but are playing a league character. That way the rest of the players who are OK with a little inconvenience for the chance at a good deal can still play the way they want and you can play the way you want.

"

WoT_Seanchan wrote:

Cross League Trading

I don't think that series of words means what you think it does considering you've quoted the thread from the trade section of the forums.

That's specifically referring to trading standard items for temp league items. This has nothing to do with your problem, you're giving standard items for standard items from someone not playing the same league. That's a huge difference. The league player benefits in no way (in league) from that trade, that is why that rule exists.

I haven't read through this whole thread to find out but has anyone pointed out that you can use the official trade site and hover over the 'online' tag and a textbox will pop up and tell you what league they're playing? You could also use the ignore feature to ignore all the people that refuse to switch.

"

AcrylicHercules wrote:

"

WoT_Seanchan wrote:

DISSCUSSION PROPOSED SOLUTION - The solution to fix this would be to disable trade listings from appearing, if the player is logged on to a char outside of the respective league's trade listing.

I know you don't want to hear this, but that's a terrible solution. Playing in the challenge league while having items for sale in standard, with the chance that you'll get a sale and switch leagues for the trade, is a real and legitimate playing style. Removing that for the sake of some players avoiding some inconvenience would do more harm than good.

I suggested a while back that GGG put a filter on the trading site, so that the buyer can decide to filter out sellers who have items for sale in standard but are playing a league character. That way the rest of the players who are OK with a little inconvenience for the chance at a good deal can still play the way they want and you can play the way you want.

Nothing against the filter idea at all, in fact I think it'll be excellent in conjunction with this current proposal. How's what I'm saying a terrible solution if people STILL have to be on a Standard character, to do Standard trades anyways? GGG has clearly said they don't want trading to be too easy in their manifesto and with the current system; it makes it too easy for temp league players to play outside their league, comfortably waiting for a trade message that they choose to ignore most of the time.

Meanwhile, players in Standard are busting their ass everyday trying to make trades and are forced to be on their characters to make something happen. The only equal footing would be to allow off line trading. So again I ask how is this a bad idea? Because it forces temp league players to actually be logged on to a character that's in the league they're trying to make profit in? What a nightmare! Having to switch chars for 30 secs or changing their listed prices is too much of a "hassle" as it is, so it makes no difference.

"

Shovelcut wrote:

"

WoT_Seanchan wrote:

Cross League Trading

I don't think that series of words means what you think it does considering you've quoted the thread from the trade section of the forums.

That's specifically referring to trading standard items for temp league items. This has nothing to do with your problem, you're giving standard items for standard items from someone not playing the same league. That's a huge difference. The league player benefits in no way (in league) from that trade, that is why that rule exists.

I haven't read through this whole thread to find out but has anyone pointed out that you can use the official trade site and hover over the 'online' tag and a textbox will pop up and tell you what league they're playing? You could also use the ignore feature to ignore all the people that refuse to switch.

Or......because a majority of players have been willingly choosing to opt in and still ignore trading in standard; make it limited to the league you're playing in. People wouldn't need a alternative option to trade if the current system were implemented with a few changes.

We are already pigeonholed into playing a certain way when it comes to skills & builds, so why not trading as well? What's the point in players making the effort to log in and change settings; but then refuse to play or trade in the league they changed it for?!

That hard to hover over the online tag huh? :(

"

WoT_Seanchan wrote:

So again I ask how is this a bad idea?

I guess you're right. It's not good enough that you're simply logged in and playing the game; no trading for you. You must be logged in to Standard for your Standard items to be searched for.

But why stop there? Wouldn't it make trading better if you knew the seller was actually ready to sell when you send the whisper? Ok then! Your items won't display in the trade search unless you're also in your hideout. No mapping if you want to sell!

But wait, even better... Your items won't show unless you're logged in, stationary in your hideout, with your stash open. After all, we don't want those dirty sellers inconveniencing other players. You need to be ready and willing to drop everything and trade when that whisper comes through.

"

AcrylicHercules wrote:

"

WoT_Seanchan wrote:

So again I ask how is this a bad idea?

I guess you're right. It's not good enough that you're simply logged in and playing the game; no trading for you. You must be logged in to Standard for your Standard items to be searched for.

But why stop there? Wouldn't it make trading better if you knew the seller was actually ready to sell when you send the whisper? Ok then! Your items won't display in the trade search unless you're also in your hideout. No mapping if you want to sell!

But wait, even better... Your items won't show unless you're logged in, stationary in your hideout, with your stash open. After all, we don't want those dirty sellers inconveniencing other players. You need to be ready and willing to drop everything and trade when that whisper comes through.

fully agree, should also be a 2 second timer to recieving that message, inviting them and having the item ready in your inventory for when they portal in. none of this gimme a sec while I search my stash for said item nonsense or the horror that is waiting for a seller to portal out of their map. Obviously they arent the people we want to be trading if they cant follow a simple 2 second rule.

Bump