Can we stop pretending that Path of Exile is free to play?

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ajo wrote:

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Draegnarrr wrote:

the game expects you to trade isn't really the same as being balanced around it

GGG has even stated that it's balanced around trade. Drop rates would need to be significantly increased this was not the case. SSF is more punishing than playing trade, that's a fact.

what draegnarr is saying is that there is a big difference between saying

"the drop rates are balanced around trade"

"the game difficulty is balanced around trade"

for example, you can perfectly clear the game on blue items only in its current state if you know what your doing.
This is consistent with statement one but not with statement two.

Just like the game doesn't require all BiS items to complete it, but getting all BiS items will involve trading.

Peace,

-Boem-

The game is balanced around trade, but the game does not require trade. Certain things in the game, on the other hand, require you to trade. But those certain things are not required.

It's the same with stash tabs. The game is maybe balanced around having more than 4 tabs, but it does not require more than 4. Certain things in this game require more than 4 tabs, but those certain things are not required.

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Phrazz wrote:

The game is balanced around trade, but the game does not require trade. Certain things in the game, on the other hand, require you to trade. But those certain things are not required.

It's the same with stash tabs. The game is maybe balanced around having more than 4 tabs, but it does not require more than 4. Certain things in this game require more than 4 tabs, but those certain things are not required.

This is my favorite way it's been said yet (also, holy crap...almost 60 pages?).

There is no way they don't expect people to desire more stash tabs at some point...and it's balanced around that.

And it's pretty obvious that stash tabs aren't absolutely required. Heck, I'd bet it'd be possible to beat the game without ever picking ANYTHING up you weren't going to wear or immediately use (orbs for coloring, fusing, etc). Imagine a 2x4 slot inventory (enough for the largest items in the game) and NOTHING else.

You'd still technically be able to do all content. It would be agonizing and infuriating, but possible. :D

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Boem wrote:

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

Turtle and Boem, you guys amuse me =)

In one of the feedback threads there's this guy I swear who bought their account. Like, regardless of opinions on ftp, there's no doubt that you guys have put in time. When someone doesn't even get the dumpster league reference to standard, all the while telling folks that standard doesn't matter because of league....


I prefer watching you two find new ways to argue the same points of view.

Your post was a fine attempt at trying to explain him something about economics in PoE which he isn't taking into account.
Which was then promptly ignored.

He honestly thinks that "he doesn't get it" referred to his play-style rather then your post attempting to explain something and being ignored.

Like i literally copy the entire context and call him out on not doing so and he starts his next post with "first, i copied your whole post".

It's all fun and games.

Peace,

-Boem-

Your are being foolish again. You are very illogical. You use insults to argue your invalid points. Then try to lie your why out of it.

You said that I would probably waste portals and time when mapping in order to make an irrelevant trade. This was to try to demonstrate that your ridiculous position that more stash tabs is not an advantage when trading.

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Turtledove wrote:

Your are being foolish again. You are very illogical. You use insults to argue your invalid points. Then try to lie your why out of it.

You said that I would probably waste portals and time when mapping in order to make an irrelevant trade. This was to try to demonstrate that your ridiculous position that more stash tabs is not an advantage when trading.

1) you still didn't adress his post.(not mine but secksegai's)

2) i pre-ampted my sentence with "he probably thinks" which usually imply's an assumption will be made.
And it wasn't adressed at you, but at secksegai, which was obvious since my post replied to his.

You haven't actually refuted that assumption because you still haven't adressed the point secksegai was making when responding to you.

An assumption doesn't need to be an insult, your free to proof it wrong any time you please.
But given the last sentence of this response demonstrates to me that you still didn't understand his point and choose to ignore it.

As a simple example, i can quite easily make a couple of hundred chaos within a week of a new league with a single stash tab just swapping currency's if i wanted. I did it once in the past and it's not particlarly difficult or "stash tab intensive" since it can be done with one tab.
It's usually what the people do that end up with multiple mirrors who only care about the economic play that don't play in a group.

Stash tabs are no hindrance to making wealth in PoE, they don't infer an intrinsic benefit if you know what your doing.

Buying extra tabs doesn't correlate with more wealth.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Your are being foolish again. You are very illogical. You use insults to argue your invalid points. Then try to lie your why out of it.

You said that I would probably waste portals and time when mapping in order to make an irrelevant trade. This was to try to demonstrate that your ridiculous position that more stash tabs is not an advantage when trading.

1) you still didn't adress his post.(not mine but secksegai's)

I addressed your post. What now you think that you're the thread police and can tell me who I can and cannot respond to? You frequently don't make any sense Boem.

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Boem wrote:

2) i pre-ampted my sentence with "he probably thinks" which usually imply's an assumption will be made.
And it wasn't adressed at you, but at secksegai, which was obvious since my post replied to his.

The statement was about me! What nonsense. "He probably thinks that raping young children is okay." You are now arguing that a statement like that is okay?

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Boem wrote:

You haven't actually refuted that assumption because you still haven't adressed the point secksegai was making when responding to you.

An assumption doesn't need to be an insult, your free to proof it wrong any time you please.
But given the last sentence of this response demonstrates to me that you still didn't understand his point and choose to ignore it.

As a simple example, i can quite easily make a couple of hundred chaos within a week of a new league with a single stash tab just swapping currency's if i wanted. I did it once in the past and it's not particlarly difficult or "stash tab intensive" since it can be done with one tab.
It's usually what the people do that end up with multiple mirrors who only care about the economic play that don't play in a group.

Stash tabs are no hindrance to making wealth in PoE, they don't infer an intrinsic benefit if you know what your doing.

Buying extra tabs doesn't correlate with more wealth.

Peace,

-Boem-

Boem, below I use the word topic. Topic in this context means are extra tabs an advantage.

I did address it. You are arguing an irrelevant tangent to what the topic is. Just because tabs don't automatically lead to more wealth, it does not mean that more tabs is not an advantage.

Since you are misunderstanding simple logic, I'll try to explain it slower. The only why your examples become relevant to the topic is if having more tabs makes one be inefficient. I did address this.

You used another big word in your post, "correlate". What you said was "Buying extra tabs doesn't correlate with more wealth." It sounds good, yes. But, you are just making what is most assuredly is a false statement there. It is obvious that having more stash tabs is an advantage in trading. If it's not obvious to you then go back and read the reasons I already posted.

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Twitch_Kopogero wrote:

If one has 20 regular stash tabs, 10 quad tabs and every other special tab buying more stash tabs won't make any difference with gaining more advantage (convenience) vs the rest in the current state of the game.

When one plays the game with the 4 default stash tabs, those same tabs when the game was released in 2013, given all the loot they've added since as well as the different types of loot (items) if they only purchased one regular stash tab it means their effectiveness and advantage (convenience) would increase by 20% vs the rest of the player base who hasn't done the same as they now have 5 regular tabs total.

Please, you don't understand the concept of f2p vs p2p. At no point does GGG charge you to access any of the game's content. I can and have played a character start to finish with only one quad-tab (which is equivalent to the default 4 stash tabs). Leave out competing in longer races that require good stash tab management on top of all other things then yes, extra stash tabs make a difference. But you are never forced to have more than 4 stash tabs. Never.

I urge you to read up on the concept of f2p. I think you (and not only you, a lot of people) have a twisted conception of it.

I am curious though what's the point of arguing SO HARD that one thinks poe is pay to win? You can try to make that case with almost anything.

Is it PTW to buy better computer components and therefore you don't have hardware lag and can play more efficiently in a group?

Is it PTW to move to a town or city closer to a server for better ping?

Hell you can make a roundabout argument that it's PTW to have enough money to not need a job, and therefor you can play far more then most.

You can hoard more junk with stash tabs. That also, does not directly correlate to beating the game, accessing content or amassing wealth.

Path of Exile is, by definition, Free to play.

It's also NOT pay to win. You can't buy power, therefore not pay to win.

The fact this has gotten to 60+ pages shows the gold medal level of mental gymnastics people will go to when they want to hate something so bad.

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Turtledove wrote:

The statement was about me! What nonsense. "He probably thinks that raping young children is okay." You are now arguing that a statement like that is okay?

It was about you in the context of secks post which is entirely different then me responding to you directly.
Again that would be more obvious if you actually adressed his argument which you still haven't.

Claiming i am somehow "forcing you" to adress his argument is besides me pointing out you simply haven't done so.

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Turtledove wrote:

Boem, below I use the word topic. Topic in this context means are extra tabs an advantage.

I did address it. You are arguing an irrelevant tangent to what the topic is. Just because tabs don't automatically lead to more wealth, it does not mean that more tabs is not an advantage.

Since you are misunderstanding simple logic, I'll try to explain it slower. The only why your examples become relevant to the topic is if having more tabs makes one be inefficient. I did address this.

You used another big word in your post, "correlate". What you said was "Buying extra tabs doesn't correlate with more wealth." It sounds good, yes. But, you are just making what is most assuredly is a false statement there. It is obvious that having more stash tabs is an advantage in trading. If it's not obvious to you then go back and read the reasons I already posted.

It's not a false statement since i even explained how it works out in reality which i have done previously.

The correlation with wealth is game-knowledge not the availability of multiple extra stash tabs.

I can beat any newcommer to the game with 10000+ stash tabs with only 1 when it comes to wealth.

And we go back to this stupid notion that having 10+ stash tabs of items linked on PoE.trade makes you more efficient or more wealthy then somebody with game knowledge posting 1 stash tab full of items.

Stash tabs don't correlate to wealth.

Peace,

-Boem-

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Please, you don't understand the concept of f2p vs p2p.

They don't care about the concept.