Solution to EXP loss/Death Penalty that wont make everyone angry
" SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" man really ur gonna play that game with me? Innocence forgives you
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" That's a very strange rebuttal, especially coming from someone who insists on not benefiting from the proposed change. If the change won't affect you then why does you liking the idea mean anything? (Bolding to show that I am using the same argument in reverse.) I think you can probably come up with some very good answers to that question, and so can I, mostly related to the overall health of the game. But why bother, when we both would be essentially offering up the same answers, or at least very similar ones? " Look man, I don't know what your particular issue is, and I won't be disingenuous and pretend to care, but I will say once again that your wounded pride is your own creation. You said things which didn't make sense, which were pointed out to you with specific quotations of your words and reasons why. At this point, instead of going "Oops I made a small mistake in logic, oh well" (because you are human and are allowed to make mistakes, as we all are) and letting it drop, you chose to drag it out by responding with muttering and sputtering about how you didn't actually say what was quoted directly and how your precious "intelect" was insulted. If you want to continue doing so instead of taking it to PM because that's the only way to make yourself feel better, be my guest, but don't expect others to react as kindly or patiently as I do. Literally no one here cares if you think you are a victim. I suggest contributing to the discussion instead of continuing to nurse your damaged ego. " It once was, you know. A long time ago. I don't think it ever will be again, even if the entire playerbase were unified behind a single message asking for that, because GGG doesn't know how to return to that. Even if they wanted to (unlikely, by the way). The simple reality is, if GGG truly thinks this kind of a league will be profitable to them, it is much more likely that they will continue shifting existing leagues in that direction. But for PR reasons they would do it surreptitiously, so that even if people accused them of doing so, no one could actually prove it. (Just like they never officially announced that creating a deliberately overpowered skill and then nerfing it later had become a point of deliberate design for them. People just became less and less able to ignore how obvious it had become.) Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Well, I think you can make some pretty compelling arguments in either direction, and the question is not entirely relevant to this thread, so I'll leave it at that. The gist of my concerns, as I alluded to in that other thread (link above), is that PoE is, now more than ever, a carefully crafted hamster wheel, and drop rates, etc. are very finely tuned to keep that hamster wheel from not being too rewarding nor not rewarding enough. Too rewarding and the drops don't feel meaningful; not rewarding enough and people give up on the game completely. With me so far? I think you maybe agree with most of the above, since it supports much of your position. The key issue here is that even if leagues are separated people will gravitate to the path of least resistance, because of the nature of PoE as a hamster wheel: If it were more of a skill-based game, people would gravitate toward harder difficulties, because skill-based games (necessarily) involve far more intrinsic rewards. Harder difficulties require more skill, and you feel like more of a badass when challenging them successfully. That is fun. PoE offers some degree of intrinsic reward, but it increasingly relies on extrinsic rewards (loot, i.e. the artificial sensation of having acquired wealth) to keep people addicted. A harder difficulty defined by decreased loot and harsher death penalties does not make you feel like more of a badass. It just makes you have to grind more to get the same (extrinsic) reward. That is not fun. Therefore, the introduction of an EZMODE league would not divide players; that argument is a red herring. Rather, it would simply draw existing players into this new, less punishing league. GGG has much more incentive not to implement a separate league but rather to tweak existing extrinsic rewards (as they are constantly doing anyhow, at least in the case of loot, to try and get that addiction formula "just right").
Spoiler
I'm intrigued by the idea of increasing rewards in HC, however, and am largely for that from a design POV. But I think it would only really work well if it were implemented back in 2013. Do it now and many players will object to their accomplishments being "watered down." Which is a legitimate grievance, I suppose.
Wash your hands, Exile!
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" I'm not playing any game, I said what I said with specific words, I said that there was a fallacy : pretending that adding an easier league would not affect the main game, that's all. There is no way back to how it was, there is no balancing the whole thing properly anymore I think, but GGG could try to design things without adding things to the clutter, they could reduce it, they could make the game more "fair", because the problem is not the xp penalty on death here, it's the fact that to many the game does not feel fair and the penalty on death makes those people rage, partly legitimately. I'm not for touching the penalty ideally, I'm for making the game fair. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" Thanks for the reply worth reading, Yeah i suppose i don't disagree that it could potentially go south if enough player base migrated there and GGG decided to cater the entire games design around that ezmode league, its sad that so much faith has been lost in GGG.. That's the thing though if we cant trust them with that then aren't we already fucked lol? I took a gander at the thread you mentioned and read the bit about your experience on a private wow server and i totally get that, I've hosted quite a few mmorpg as well as worked on some and one of the biggest things i hate about being a developer/modder/admin is that you as you said (see behind the curtain) and it truly does hurt your ability to enjoy that content like you did before.. POE is one of the only games i do not have complete control over and probably why im still playing it outside of the obvious RPG Sandbox elements. " Perhaps i misunderstood you once again, The death penalty doesn't bother me at all like i said i'd be fine with increasing it and including de-level in standard as well as full voided deaths in hardcore.. reward items such as demigod/etc should have been microtrans rather than physical items so that hardcore players ESPECIALLY could enjoy them without the whole bullshit involved with transfer to standard including (dying in hc league to sell stuff for 800% the price in standard)which is not fair at all and is also a REWARD for many rather than a punishment. Screen clutter though yeah it become pretty bad lately and if i didnt have wings and glowy bits on my character sometimes i'd literally LOSE it even though its locked in the middle of my screen, Thats not to say in the old days we did not have screen-fucking builds but they certainly were nothing compared to what we have now as for the rest of my thoughts im far too tired to contribute any more right now but thank for giving me something i can actually reply to. Innocence forgives you Last edited by SilentSymphony on Feb 28, 2020, 11:09:05 AM
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if money is their main concern I don't understand why they don't have a microtransaction for an item that prevents XP lost upon death like other MMORPG offer...
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" They have not had the balls to go that far yet. They have tried to maintain their image of an "ethical" company while getting shadier and shadier regarding some things that are profitable, so ... SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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Last edited by rafoca on Jul 17, 2020, 4:45:44 PM
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I won't read this huge thread, but I like penalties. It bothers me that when I die, at least on Xbox, nothing happens. It takes out the fun.
If there is an Xp loss, I've never felt it. I died just a few times, coz this game is also too easy. I like challenges! Last edited by rafoca on Jul 17, 2020, 4:46:32 PM
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" Here's the thing : as you can see, the penalties already exist, but have barely any effect prior to ending the 10 acts, and even then don't start being felt before late in the endgame. And then, they skyrocket near the end of the leveling process, making it very painful and pushing many players away from the game. I guess you'll understand better the complaints when you get there. The thing is, most of us players complaining about the penalty would fine with increasing the penalty early on, the goal being to have a meaningful penalty all along the experience, without feeling hit by a train when it kicks in. Plus, the penalty tends to be inconsistent, with some situations where it's basically nonexistent, making not only the situation painful, but also incoherent for almost every single objective the penalty could have. These discussions tend to get stale, because the situation is very painful to the players that want it changed, and players for the status quo tend to nitpick at any imperfection in any suggestion. Plus, GGG clearly has no intent to ever reduce the penalty, as they fear to lose the support from the pro-status quo part of the community, which is even more vocal than the pro-change part of the community when there is a reduction of the penalty. So, we're stuck with the matter being very often first-page in the feedback forums, with no hope to see any change being made in any direction. Last edited by Angry_Casual on Jul 18, 2020, 12:22:57 AM
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