Solution to EXP loss/Death Penalty that wont make everyone angry

Holy shit no wonder this thread has 19 pages. This guy is unironically trying to argue semantics as his #1 priority.

Guy asks why sc/hc being dead is relevant.. he doesn't realize hes the one who brought it into the topic.

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yamface wrote:

Holy shit no wonder this thread has 19 pages. This guy is unironically trying to argue semantics as his #1 priority.

Guy asks why sc/hc being dead is relevant.. he doesn't realize hes the one who brought it into the topic.

I brought up the positive side affects that could potentially happen, I did not use hardcore and standard as a point of why this should be or not be enabled though quite a few users have come in here screaming "dont divide us up even more" like really?

Also i haven't been posting in this for almost over a week now so most of the thread was by other people such as yourself, good observation skills there bud.. Clearly you did not read 98% of the thread.

If you'd answer my questions i asked below we might be able to have a conversation but i highly doubt you are here for that, prove me wrong?

But you'll prove me right by posting yet another non-quoted reply that does not answer any of my questions and has no real logic to back it up just like when i asked for the 2nd or third time now.


HOW DOES DIVIDING UP PLAYERS TO AN OPTIONAL SOFTCORE LEAGUE AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY?

especially if those players were gonna quit anyway, division? pfff you need players to divide them so if you cant retain(player retention O_O) which they cant seem to do consistently outside of leagues(and thats generally only until they get their mtx) then something needs to change.

"lets do nothing" is what most people yourself included seem to think is the solution to this problem.

I'm not like that however when i see a problem i immediately look for a solution even if that solution is not easy to find or impliment.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

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yamface wrote:

It divides the playerbase even more. Over such a minor difference in gameplay.

And can we stop with this stupid shit about "boo hoo I have a family and jerb, we're the ones with the money so do this for us". This is so desperate, selfish, and cringe. And I'm saying that as someone who also has a family and works a full time job.

I'm not one of the people this would affect in a positive way, not boo-hooing about not having enough time or any of that either, I sympathize with those people however its a bit late in the game to be changing everything to suit working class folks at the level they would like as many modern mmorpg do these days with their cancerous dailys and what not.

Sometimes i think everyone would rather watch a house burn down with a bunch of people inside screaming asking them to open the door so they can get out but arguing about how to open the door correctly and thus everyone + the house burned into ash.

^its a shitty example but that's mostly whats going on here, a lot of arguing about pointless crap and mostly by people who don't really care about anyone but themselves, Of course not everyone here is like that but holy crap can we come up with some solutions to problems?

Hardcore players/Standard players QQ'ing about how it would split the player base as if hardcore and standard aren't essentially dead as they are now anyway.

WHY DID I PROPOSE THIS:

Too many new players quit way too early before learning how this game works and how to play it

Softcore league gives new players a softer landing into the complex world of POE allowing them to reach the highest levels with much less punishment.

without facilitating better player retention at the low skill level we are going to keep dwindling on the high end too.. I was incomprehensibly bad at this game for quite a while in standard but eventually as i got better i started doing leagues/races/hardcore and the same will be true for many


This would not destroy the game as much as it would help it under 1 simple condition that Softcore does NOT affect the game balance.. imo (HARDCORE should be the standard of balance for the ENTIRE GAME)

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yamface wrote:

Holy shit no wonder this thread has 19 pages. This guy is unironically trying to argue semantics as his #1 priority.

Guy asks why sc/hc being dead is relevant.. he doesn't realize hes the one who brought it into the topic.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

"

yamface wrote:

It divides the playerbase even more. Over such a minor difference in gameplay.

And can we stop with this stupid shit about "boo hoo I have a family and jerb, we're the ones with the money so do this for us". This is so desperate, selfish, and cringe. And I'm saying that as someone who also has a family and works a full time job.

I'm not one of the people this would affect in a positive way, not boo-hooing about not having enough time or any of that either, I sympathize with those people however its a bit late in the game to be changing everything to suit working class folks at the level they would like as many modern mmorpg do these days with their cancerous dailys and what not.

Sometimes i think everyone would rather watch a house burn down with a bunch of people inside screaming asking them to open the door so they can get out but arguing about how to open the door correctly and thus everyone + the house burned into ash.

^its a shitty example but that's mostly whats going on here, a lot of arguing about pointless crap and mostly by people who don't really care about anyone but themselves, Of course not everyone here is like that but holy crap can we come up with some solutions to problems?

Hardcore players/Standard players QQ'ing about how it would split the player base as if hardcore and standard aren't essentially dead as they are now anyway.

WHY DID I PROPOSE THIS:

Too many new players quit way too early before learning how this game works and how to play it

Softcore league gives new players a softer landing into the complex world of POE allowing them to reach the highest levels with much less punishment.

without facilitating better player retention at the low skill level we are going to keep dwindling on the high end too.. I was incomprehensibly bad at this game for quite a while in standard but eventually as i got better i started doing leagues/races/hardcore and the same will be true for many


This would not destroy the game as much as it would help it under 1 simple condition that Softcore does NOT affect the game balance.. imo (HARDCORE should be the standard of balance for the ENTIRE GAME)

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

HOW DOES DIVIDING UP PLAYERS TO AN OPTIONAL SOFTCORE LEAGUE AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY?

especially if those players were gonna quit anyway, division? pfff you need players to divide them so if you cant retain(player retention O_O) which they cant seem to do consistently outside of leagues(and thats generally only until they get their mtx) then something needs to change.

"lets do nothing" is what most people yourself included seem to think is the solution to this problem.

YOU.ARE.GUESSING.THE.FUCKING.PROBLEM

The reason why I haven't answered anything you asked is because the entire premise and problem statement was guessed. Stop talking about "solutions". You've conjured the problem with nothing but assumptions, anecdotes, and shitty logic. There is no solution to a fake problem. You do not have any feedback data behind why players leave. And yet you're proposing a major change.. over an assumption you made. I have no word for you if you can't see how stupid this looks.

But since you're sooooo desperate for an "answer" to that bolded question: it separates friends. I don't give a flying fuck what you think is going to happen or where hc/sc belong or what they're going to do, this exact line of reasoning is why ggg doesn't put dead hc characters into sc temp leagues, and yes they literally stated it outright. It's practically self explanatory. It's funny that you think this only affects players who would have already left, like how short sighted can you be.


Anyway this is the last time I'm looking at this thread.

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yamface wrote:

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SilentSymphony wrote:

HOW DOES DIVIDING UP PLAYERS TO AN OPTIONAL SOFTCORE LEAGUE AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY?

especially if those players were gonna quit anyway, division? pfff you need players to divide them so if you cant retain(player retention O_O) which they cant seem to do consistently outside of leagues(and thats generally only until they get their mtx) then something needs to change.

"lets do nothing" is what most people yourself included seem to think is the solution to this problem.

YOU.ARE.GUESSING.THE.FUCKING.PROBLEM

The reason why I haven't answered anything you asked is because the entire premise and problem statement was guessed. Stop talking about "solutions". You've conjured the problem with nothing but assumptions, anecdotes, and shitty logic. There is no solution to a fake problem. You do not have any feedback data behind why players leave. And yet you're proposing a major change.. over an assumption you made. I have no word for you if you can't see how stupid this looks.

But since you're sooooo desperate for an "answer" to that bolded question: it separates friends. I don't give a flying fuck what you think is going to happen or where hc/sc belong or what they're going to do, this exact line of reasoning is why ggg doesn't put dead hc characters into sc temp leagues, and yes they literally stated it outright. It's practically self explanatory. It's funny that you think this only affects players who would have already left, like how short sighted can you be.


Anyway this is the last time I'm looking at this thread.

You are the one guessing and making nothing but assumptions, My data is based off existent data-points such as the countless threads created by people who say they are quitting for x/y reason as well as the number of threads created about exp loss.. This is searchable data right here on the forum.

This is not a major change it is literally exp loss mitigation in a Softcore league for new players, Lots of games including modern MMORPG have systems like this though generally they don't have LEAGUES but have tiered difficulty of content you can choose to tackle for better rewards at higher difficulty and keeps everyone on the same server, This league would share standards servers and if it was successful it would get its own servers due to the increased profit rolling in for GGG and thus justify its existence.

It seperates friends ? LOL you can't be serious, GGG doesn't worry about us having "friends" in this game and you can clearly see that by the fact they entirely ignored guilds since their creation, If GGG wanted us to actually interact with each other they would give us hard content that requires guilds/partys of people to complete instead EVERYTHING in poe can be EASILY solo'd.

You have proposed no alternatives to help these users, You clearly don't care about them either, so why are you here? Certainly not to discuss anything as i tried 3 times to ask you a few questions and you simply ignored or worse twisted my words to suit your own sad little story you made up in your mind about my intentions here.

And you wanna hear some truth yams? Its attitudes like yours that are the problem, you are unwilling to have a civil discussion unlike here i would be glad to hear your full reasoning if you actually had any to begin with.

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yamface wrote:

It divides the playerbase even more. Over such a minor difference in gameplay.

And can we stop with this stupid shit about "boo hoo I have a family and jerb, we're the ones with the money so do this for us". This is so desperate, selfish, and cringe. And I'm saying that as someone who also has a family and works a full time job.

So lets leave it with this comical reply of yours^ saying it will split up the user base and your later reply that GGG themelves stated they didn't want to split up friends, you're fighting against the common narrative here that POE is an online-single-player-game which is about as effective as blowing at a hurricane to try and push it away.

I'm here to discuss so no im not desperate for your answers but i would like to see your thoughts on the topic without all the bullshit, I just don't think you had any to begin with and are leaning so hard on your personal bias that you have gone blind.

Saying that adding a separate (easier) league would not affect the main game is a fallacy that has been addressed many times, by many players, in many threads, including this one.

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Fruz wrote:

Saying that adding a separate (easier) league would not affect the main game is a fallacy

Unless you are explicitly limiting that statement to easier leagues only, luckily we don't need any guesswork on this one because we have a precedence of a league other than regular temporary HC/SC and standard that was added: SSF.

And boy, does this example show us: first they scream for a new league, claiming that nothing much will change for others. Then they demand more and more, and GGG inevitably caves in, and look where this got us!

Contrary to the intitial demands and assertions, everybody knows that these SSF leagues severely affected the main game because drops were from now on totally adjusted for SSF playing and every non-SSFer's experience was ruined as a consequence, right? Player retention in non-SSF plummeted, the game went constantly downhill since then and is now practically dead... Damn SSFers, they ruined PoE.

This is why I specified it .....

And no, there is nothing to indicate that they balance for SSF at all, I honestly don't think they do, they have been casualizing the game alright, but it has nothing to do with SSF.

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Fruz wrote:

Saying that adding a separate (easier) league would not affect the main game is a fallacy that has been addressed many times, by many players, in many threads, including this one.

Please be careful with the terms you throw around like Fallacy, This is most certainly NOT a fallacy though you are welcomed to disagree with me... at the end of all of this its not about you (as far as i can tell mostly a hardcore player) and its not about me (mostly a standard/league player) its about those who are driven from the game for various reasons and trying to come to a solution so less people quit.

Worst case scenario i see it hurting standard a little on player count.. but hardcore? Can you seriously say it would hurt hardcore more than help? and i am REALLY stretching the word "hurt" here.

Now if we're talking leagues i do not propose they should create a Softcore version of the league because in that particular instance i CAN see it causing problems.

/shrug its no wonder the devs don't post here outside of technical explanations because outside of you Fruz and maybe 5-6 other people everyone else is just taking a crap here to let off steam at others expense and not doing a gods damned thing to try and help anyone but themselves or worse try to deny people something they want to hold onto a Fallacy.

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SamothD wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Saying that adding a separate (easier) league would not affect the main game is a fallacy

Unless you are explicitly limiting that statement to easier leagues only, luckily we don't need any guesswork on this one because we have a precedence of a league other than regular temporary HC/SC and standard that was added: SSF.

And boy, does this example show us: first they scream for a new league, claiming that nothing much will change for others. Then they demand more and more, and GGG inevitably caves in, and look where this got us!

Contrary to the intitial demands and assertions, everybody knows that these SSF leagues severely affected the main game because drops were from now on totally adjusted for SSF playing and every non-SSFer's experience was ruined as a consequence, right? Player retention in non-SSF plummeted, the game went constantly downhill since then and is now practically dead... Damn SSFers, they ruined PoE.

Well that's stupid and they should have balanced the game off Hardcore if they had any respect for their product and player-base, Malachai's balls.... balancing for SSF is quite comical though as i mentioned 2 posts ago most people refer to this as an onlie single-player game LOL.

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Fruz wrote:

This is why I specified it .....

And no, there is nothing to indicate that they balance for SSF at all, I honestly don't think they do, they have been casualizing the game alright, but it has nothing to do with SSF.

Do you think i want them to casualize the game? well how would you know.. so i'll say it again, I want the game to be harder in some aspects for example how i said i wish they would nerf standard to have de-levels so you are NEVER safe even if you make it to 100.




Edit: To be honest i don't really care all that much about the goal of this topic but it was the only reasonable solution i could come up with and the threads simply do not end on the topic so as someone who doesn't give a flying fuck about losing exp in this game i decided to take a calm approach at thinking on the solution.

I do however care about my intentions, words, motives and so much more regularly being twisted and taken out of context to serve a plot which serves nothing more than making some shithead on the other end of the internet get a laugh ESPECIALLY when im supporting something that won't benefit me in any way.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

Please be careful with the terms you throw around like Fallacy, This is most certainly NOT a fallacy

but it is, a fallcy.
Somehow assuming that an easier league would not massively attract players (path of least resistance) and eventually impact the global game balance is anything but realistic.

I don't mean that it would hurt other league, it would eventually hurt the whole game.

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Fruz wrote:

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SilentSymphony wrote:

Please be careful with the terms you throw around like Fallacy, This is most certainly NOT a fallacy

but it is, a fallcy.
Somehow assuming that an easier league would not massively attract players (path of least resistance) and eventually impact the global game balance is anything but realistic.

I don't mean that it would hurt other league, it would eventually hurt the whole game.

See there's the separation, the idea is not a fallacy the thing you're calling a fallacy is that i said it would not hurt you, and outside of them balancing the game around that game-mode how else could it potentially hurt you?

Its almost fucking pointless to reply here though none of the IMPORTANT parts of what I've been trying to say has been brought up in reply.

I can see from your POV because its so very similar to mine.. I love this game and i HATE what happens to it sometimes due to the masses of people screaming without having any knowledge about this game or at least certainly not 7++ Years and 15k++ hours but as much as i can emulate with your perspective on things we are very different.

Doing nothing is not an option, so by all means any ideas on what would be better? because the whole game has been hurting for a long time, It kills me that standard is basically dead and that hardcore is not much better.