Being killed by something you cannot see is not challenging.
" Nowhere if you stop playing dumb maybe ? Nebuloch Jugg (or chieftain, for what it changes ...) have always been the meta for Delve or bossing, especially coupled with molten strike or cyclone. Dual strike ? Hmmm nop, I only see a bladestorm character in what you have (once cyclone was banned from the zdps hc melee league, guess what a drastic majority of the racer played during the race ? YEP, that's right ... bladestorm, one of the few melee skills that can do something somewhat correctly, even for melee characters) Ice crash is not meta, I'll give you that, that's one build, go play it in HC or even SSF now ? " Do you realize that I don't care ? You can pretend that it does not matter, it conveniently follows your agenda (SURPRISE!) that you know everything and that there is no archetype imbalance in PoE, because you can play your Nebuloch character and come to the forums and "there is no problem, get good scrubs !" Unfortunately, you chose the wrong thread for that this time (oops!) Followed by the typical BS strawman "HC players never take risks", and in the meanwhile there are end game boss items on the market, or delve boss items, etc ..... *sigh* " There we are back to the bad-faith stinking strawman "my Nebuloch characters don't care about most of the mechanics, therefore there is no problem as I can just ignore most of the things that touch me" Some things never change lol ... SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" I guess your meta definition is changing based on what you are arguing for eh? You can ask literally anyone on this forum or on reddit if they consider non cyclone melee "meta". The "meta" right now is Summoners and Miners, you know, those builds you always compare melee to when arguing how shitty it is. " And do you realize that I don't care about your little god complex because you've trashed dozens of HC chars in your playtime? If you think HC is difficult go ahead, keep stroking your bloated ego with it, I don't give a damn. But leave me out of your illusions. And just because some players are so good at the game that they can do Uber Elder deathless and risk free doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't fight him in HC if they weren't so confident they can do it deathless " Who is picking Strawmans here. I am not saying that because my Nebuloch builds can ignore that (in fact they can't, there is no build in the game that can ignore CE effects). I say that because I have no issues seeing Baranite mines and normal CE effects. If you would spend more time playing instead of flaming people here on the forums maybe you could see them too. Last edited by Baharoth15 on Feb 17, 2020, 8:39:13 AM
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"Dual Strike Glads are pretty close to meta in the ZDPS Melee league actually, as far as I can tell. It just doesn't have the simultaneous clear and damage of Bladestorm (but it does have better clearing potential than Lacerate, IMO). I don't think I've heard of anyone using Ice Crash yet. The fact that, as Steelmage remarked on the other day, someone decided to opt into doing a default attack kill before anyone had even done any elemental skill is a very good picture of the state of Melee: Physical builds are actually in a very good spot damage wise (but will probably get obliterated), but Elemental melee skills seem to struggle right now AFAIK. It's hard to say since nobody is really playing elemental melee skills and I don't trust myself to be an expert on them. |
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" I thought it's obvious but I am not talking about the meta in some limited access private melee league. I mean yeah melee skills are meta in a melee only league, who would have guessed. I am talking about normal league meta. And even without checking POE Ninja I am pretty confident that Nebuloch juggs/chieftains using Tec slam or MS are on the very bottom of the usage rankings. /edit just checked, according to that main skill list on the sidebar it's 0,8% for MS and 0,2 for Tec Slam, totally meta. Jugg sees 3% usage, Chieftain 1%. So much for ignoring facts that don't fit your own agenda eh Fruz? Last edited by Baharoth15 on Feb 17, 2020, 8:44:50 AM
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You asked where a change of mind on melee skills was coming from, and that league was basically where Melee skills are being put in a new light. I know it doesn't suddenly make Melee meta for the main leagues, but I felt it was worth shedding some light on the subject.
EDIT: Also, I feel like one of Nebuloch's problems is that it is harder to get the weapon now, and IIRC the Fortify nerf targeting Delve builds hurt the popularity of Nebuloch JUGGs, unless I'm wrong. Last edited by VolcanoElixir on Feb 17, 2020, 8:50:11 AM
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" So you decided to not read what I wrote and try to mix everything I see, even though I was pretty explicit. I'm not surprised. " The one thing you should probably start to understand, is that you're the one coming out in a shiny white armour with "git gud scrubs" BS when people are discussing game design issues that are not necessarily related to difficulty, and definitely NOT a requirement for difficult gameplay. You bring "you're not good enough, leave people who can play difficult content or git gud" when nobody actually cares because : 1) you're completely missing the point 2) you're completely oblivious of what's working better and what actually does what, and on top of that you you keep going full tunnel vision @"my Nebuloch characters don't have problems therefore there is no problem" while playing SC trade league, which is pretty ironic for such a behaviour (which is simply what I was pointing out, which you obviously didn't like as everybody can tell). I'm not going everyone telling people to "gid gud there is no problem (with no arguments, to add insult to injury)", you are. " Funny how now it's only about Baranite mines heh. And "CE effects" wtf is that ? No, if you don't think that there are invisible or pretty much invisible effects in the game (outside of bugs, due to various things, it being graphical vomit, shit GUI, viewport issues, or else), there are couple of hypothesis here : - you don't actually play the game - you play some kind of tanks that can ignore most of those effects (I know, this is coming back, I guess there are just reasons for it LOL) - You play vanilla unmoded low level content - you spend 20 mins on every single map (which would not be enough on its own to make one see effects hidden some other things) - bad faith (=lies) " (he does not play dual strike, it's a bladestorm character lol, seriously) And yeah, impale overall is very, very strong. I have a high level elemental (pseudo) elemental melee char, it's using a meme weapon as a base so there's that but if I would go for impale, I'm pretty sure that my dps would go much higher. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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The last time I played PoE, a couple weeks ago, I died in a T15 map (on a character that has pretty decent survivability) to a single Legion rare that used some yellow javelin attack. It came from OFF-SCREEN and killed me from full health (6.7k HP + 1.1k ES). That's in Standard with an 80% Loreweave and Fortify running.
Off-screen deaths happen. It's actually the same attack that got me a few times during Legion league. I dodge some by weaving back and forth as I approach the areas where I know Legion rares spawned, but sometimes I weave right back into the path of it. If you want a game with really good reaction based difficulty, Wolcen is actually lots of fun. The Chapter (Act) 1 boss is BRUTALLY hard for melee, and you have to learn and manually dodge every attack, which is well telegraphed. The difference? It's STILL hard. It took me a dozen or so tries, because he hits hard, and has three distinct phases with a wide variety of attacks, but they're all easy enough to see with time to react to them. Sure, one false step might mean death, but there wasn't a single wipe that I didn't know what killed me, or what I could do in the future to avoid it. THAT is what Path of Exile is missing. Sure, early on, everything kills you and that's just part of learning. However, once you've played for months or years, and thousands of hours...there are STILL some things you just can't avoid without completely avoiding content. There's a learning cap, but it's not the same as the difficulty cap. People will always try to defend the worst aspects of their favorite game. That's fine, but if 99% of the people die semi-regularly to things they can't see, that's still bad design. |
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" The sad truth is 99% of the people playing any given game are bad at playing it and i am sure as hell part of that 99%. You can literally take any game you like, POE, SC2, Hearthstone whatever you pick, this never changes. Sure you can try to adjust the game to a level where even the dumbest guy imaginable can handle it, but you will fail because THAT is bad design. There will always be people crying that it's still too hard because they refuse to learn, they refuse to adapt. This game sure has it's flaws and yeah visibility could be improved here and there but people blaming it for their deaths are, for the most part, just looking for excuses, nothing more. I am sure that those unavoidable off screen deaths exist. But 99,99999% of the deaths are caused by player error, not visibility. You are making a huge fuss here about the remaining cases. Last edited by Baharoth15 on Feb 17, 2020, 3:59:38 PM
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" So now, things that you are being shown are merely 0.00001% of all cases ( number pulled out of your magic hat obviously ) so it's not a problem ? So much argumentation I see, as usual. " Legion gangbang squads are still a thing unfortunately, it's one of the many "cheap" difficulty elements that GGG decided to put in the game ( because they are not able to provide "fair"/interesting/well-design challenging encounters ). The best thing about legion encounters is to never unfreeze more than 2~3 rares together (next to each other) in a map that has damage mods, and / or constantly keep mooving, which not every character can easily do. I had never done any legion encounter at the start of Blight, I had a pretty tanky ( don't think I ever had one close call on this one ) character in SSF HC in a t9 at level 90 ( I think ) and it got sent to standard within a split second because it unfroze 3 minions, and they were barely in range ( probably offscreen actually ) ... that was quite the BS death honestly, and there is no fucking learning curve for Legion encounter, it's just stupid. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz on Feb 17, 2020, 7:33:09 PM
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" Come on Fruz, you should know by now that 62.75% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Wash your hands, Exile!
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