Reminder: Resolute Technique still provides minimal value over non-RT builds ever since Acc buff.
" Sadly, with the TencentGGG devs slapping Crit effects as various requirements for pure damage boosts (which seem to be added more and more these days), even without not investing in Crit multi above the 150% base and focusing mainly on a higher Crit chance is still noticeably better than RT, so I feel that @sidtherat is mainly on point - a bit hyperbolic sure, but spot on. You might have had a fair point regarding mace nodes and accuracy, yet there are classes that have either a noticeable boost to Accuracy, or Crit chance, not to mention the fact that some Accuracy nodes are really in your way, and having to deal with a couple of of "lost" skillpoints to get a decent chance to hit is not such an impediment as you're never only getting Accuracy in the tree for your investment. You can wear a Kaom's, and a Xoph's and use a Ngamahu, but then your weapon of choice should be vaaled with RT if you don't feel like investing into Accuracy. And that is actually independent of the class - it even works for evasion based ones, but those should have NO Accuracy problems, hence not needing RT, and could still benefit from those cool on Crit effects with a sensible investment towards Crit chance too. If Crit wouldn't give outright a massive multiplier, but would still have various "circumstantial damage boosts" like those "juicy" % of phys as added fire damage on Abyss jewels, or the easier chance for a free shock/freeze/ignite, we all know that it would be played, and compared with non-RT non-Crit it would have a large % of usage... It's not the problem that RT isn't sufficiently played, it's the problem that with the said "damage cap" you simply miss out as @Shioks clearly presented. It doesn't help that there is no real argument, beside EO, to go non-RT non-Crit, as you stated it might even be difficult to get Accuracy and/or Crit chance, and for what? To simply be happy with a qDPS meme build? Really? TencentGGG need to curb Crit and properly address RT and non-RT non-Crit as REAL, VIABLE options, and doing so actually requires providing REAL INCENTIVES... I'm still waiting for those since around 2.0, and I sincerely hope they will get implemented in 4.0 instead of 5.0... PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"... Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... Last edited by sofocle10000#6408 on Jan 7, 2020, 11:27:22 PM
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" i stand by my opinion. nowadays there are TO MANY 'on crit' events that going non crit is gimping yourself on purpose. recent ailment rework made that even easier to see. crits give you: - flask charges on crit - status ailments application on crit (easier to stack than 'chance to' - this alone is absurd and was absurd already in .9 days) - BETTER ailments/stuns due to higher average hit values - indirect more damage (shock and/or other interactions with ailments). how many non-crit builds youve seen that benefit from shock? (excluding skitterbots ofc) - herald of ice cascades are rather easy to get on crit build, MUCH harder for non-crit - if you check the list of damage mods/auxilary mods on modern gear it is almost exclusively 'blahblah blah on crit/crit recently' or 'more crit'. the only non crit that comes to mind is 30% more elemental for helmet and then there is the damage. damage that by math alone is higher than for non-crit build. it is simply a case of min-maxing simple equation where you either increase existing %increased (say from 400 to 600%) or you keep it at 400 and introduce 200% multiplier (or rather 400+ in reality, maligaro gloves give you flat 300% if you really want to go for 10c budget) as a cherry on top: recently upgraded AR for mobs is a non-issue to crit builds that simply deal higher per-hit damage and thus are mitigated to a lesser extent in the 'older days' going crit was expensive. nowadays it isnt. your mace build? you have 1mir ~9crit base weapon and you cannot afford to get 3000acc total from gear? SERIOUSLY? what crazy talk is it? how do you stack damage on this build? 600% increased and some sources of %phys as ele? there is no opportunity cost for going crit no more. not since ascendancies. and again - i stand by my opinion. if you remove damage from crit the list of bonuses (maybe some of you you take for granted and dont even realise non-crit doesnt have that) is so long that going non-crit is simply a bad choice. it is not a flavour thing it is math thing. oh and ngmahu cyclone raider? why raider? raider is an old days choice. you know that Tailwind on Crit boots give you all the speed you need and chieftain seems to be a better choice nowadays? not to mention that this is a budget build by design anyway.. in 1.0 crit was weaker than today, accuracy was much harder to get, there was a hard cap of 95%*95% chance to crit, you was always that ~7% away from 100%. that was the margin RT had. you had valid options to pick or not to pick crit (diamond flasks were removed in 1.0 i think). that was one of the big POE's selling point. there was no one, strictly better way - this was a difference between D3 and POE. but nowadays.. if you dont go crit is it either because you are new and affraid that 'it is expensive/difficult' or you play Caustic Arrow or something. the pendulum swung FAR TO FAR to the crit side. and really - damage is just a part of it. convenience and LOTS of 'extras' you get along the damage are staggering and hard to say 'no' to. |
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" ive provided arguments and examples of why you wouldnt take RT on a non crit build probably 5+ times in this thread, and you havent made a single point that counters any of it. quite an amazing level of selective information absorption tbh. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" What arguments and examples? I know that you can build different, but that doesn't mean that said build is "up to snuff"... Really, even disregarding efficiency, you need to concede that RT or Crit are so widely available - RT is a damn vaal outcome, and as long as you don't rely on a rare, you always have the opportunity to simply get that for a "proper investment"... There simply is NO REASON WHATSOEVER (except EO) to not go Crit and simply tag at least a further 50% multi for close to no investment these days. Non-RT non-Crit doesn't have a damn purpose beside EO. Anything it can do, RT or Crit WILL ALWAYS DO IT BETTER. That is unfortunately a sad fact, but still a fact these days... PS: Things go this way: 1) Crit focused, even if we talk about a damn non-Crit multi reliant build, still has access to all the "juicy" on Crit effects and more damage 2) non-Crit non-RT, have a only EO as an option to add more damage, and even then they are simply surpassed with a moderate investment towards Crit 3) RT which allows a static damage cap, except via scaling DoTs/indirect damage scaling, which is the least damage of them all 4) IF you want to go beyond the "UBER HARD MODE ON" that RT is, you can have non-RT non-Crit non-Accuracy as an even harder difficulty mod, but that is simply not a proper way to play PoE and should be disregarded as simply a damn "meme"... PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"... Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... Last edited by sofocle10000#6408 on Jan 8, 2020, 2:09:32 AM
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" who said i couldnt get acc on the builds that have used that mace? quite amazing how you and sofocle manage to not read anything properly and hence start into irrelevant debates and observations that make no sense in the context of whats been said. " massive evasion. for characters with over 10k life evasion is great. ive played chieftans with 10k+ life, theyre squishy as hell, its horrible. " maybe try reading the thread? " the percentage of attack builds I would play that use a unique weapon are extremely slim. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" Maybe highlight them as a list, simply because I'm having problems seeing their relevance, and yes, I'm very serious about it - we did read both the same thread, right? Sure, but on a rare, which would be decent, just like that cool mirrored mace, you have affixes that actually ENTICE GOING CRIT, even the game tells you that you're supposed to GO CRIT for maximum min-maxing, and if you have a decent rare that doesn't entice Crit, you're having to deal with the choice of getting at least 1K flat accuracy on items and run Precision while speccing some % inc accuracy nodes OR go RT. But if you so spec said nodes, and some also add increased Crit chance, why not use that with the damn "ON CRIT" affixes that me an @sidtherat keep telling you about? PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"... Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... Last edited by sofocle10000#6408 on Jan 8, 2020, 2:16:31 AM
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" but youve missed the point of - at least my - questions: if you dont go RT, why dont go all-in into crit if that yields bigger damage, better auxiliary effects and you are almost there anyway? if you go 'non-crit' (meme choice in my book, sorry) that means you have either 'cant be evaded' weapon (aka 100% accuracy) or somehow got 3000-3500 effective accuracy on you. by doing that you are already at around 10% crit chance no matter what you do. why then stack highly ineffective %increased if you can EASILY pick yet another multiplier and skyrocket your damage? THE item that ruins all resemblance of choice is diamond flask. it is insane what this item can do. that is the question I would like to hear an answer. why go non-crit if crit is there to be taken. what are the benefits? what do you gain by going non crit? oh and evasion? blind from sand stance is not enough nowadays? since they gave us Blind for virtually free i saw no need to even look at 'natural' evasion unless QotF. Last edited by sidtherat#1310 on Jan 8, 2020, 2:22:14 AM
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" I think that his point was the answer here : crit is too good and needs to be nerfed. On thing that could be argued if crit was not that good ( diamond flasks is a problem, on resistance utility flasks are a problem to be honest ), would be the "stability" of the damage, that going non crit would e more reliable as it would be more predictable ( again, that would be in a case where crit would not be as good as now ). Not all builds/archetypes have the same access to crit nodes too, the opportunity cost isn't the same for all. I also agree that crit giving "free" ailments is just too much, likely has always been too much. Changing it to a 50% to apply an ailment would be a start. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" the same reason you would go RT, because crit is just too much of a pain in the arse and stretches you too thin on some characters. I just wouldnt bother with it using a 5% base crit axe with a character. esp one whos locked into a non crit amulet. if ur talking about my example of ngamahu ranger, its a delve character, it delves past the monster lvl83 line in the mid to late 200s i think? it uses a quick silver and defense flasks, it kills all the mobs as it whirls along, it doesnt really need to be crit. I could stack 160% crit chance on the tree without compromising on defenses, thats 8% crit chance on a base 5 weapon and id be dropping 3 damage clusters to get that 8% crit chance. If I also swapped out a gem like conc or ele focus for a crit strikes gem then for dropping 3 damage wheels and a 60% more damage gem Id get about 19% crit chance, on top of a now 7% base thats 26% final crit chance. i cant get any crit multi on gear so its just not worth it, i feel like it would end up being less damage and id be dropping attack speed to get it which not only scaling how many balls im shooting out but also returns on the lgoh gem in the cyclone 4L. Ive got an 800 pdps mirrored crit staff with 8% base crit and 37% multi, if I wanted to do crit cyclone i wouldnt use a 5% base crit unique axe thats scaling projectiles. if u go marauder the big crit generic wheels like disembowelling and dismembering are melee specific so theyre not even gonna work. going crit with an axe but not being able to take anything tagged melee is just a bit janky. capping accuracy was extremely simple, just a couple of suffixes, thats not "almost there" to having worth while crit on that character, thats like the first inch of a mile. the blind aura is ok, its a bit shit on its own, i have that on a chieftan, RF firetrap prolif + flame surger, it still feels really squishy. I vaal cyclone massive packs of mobs in delves, id just die doing that with a blind aura on a marauder. I dont use the blind aura on the ranger, I have dazzling strikes enchanted on the amulet and it just blinds everything it hits with about 11k life and over 20k evasion + the rangers 'more' evasion multipliers. its levelled to 98 doing those delves, it doesnt play maps. youre welcome to roll a crit chieftan one and try levelling to 98 with it in delves at that level on the back of a sand aura, i feel like it would be frustrating tbh. " i dont care enough about what you think to bother, you also dont care enough about thinking to even read the thread and the posts you are responding to so i guess that makes 2 of us. ill remember to just ignore you rather than attempt any sort of sensible discussion in future as its obviously pointless. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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RT is integral to my build, think outside the box people.
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