Reminder: Resolute Technique still provides minimal value over non-RT builds ever since Acc buff.

How are people getting bothered by accuracy on casters at all these days, equip shaper’s touch, or that jewel that give u accuracy for int, any legit caster that is not summon or chaos DoT that take the RT node must be out of their minds.

RT needs a extra thing added to be good, by buffing RT with something like always deal maximum damage can make thous 5% bases weapons become some what useful, it would open up some build diversity, hell, even casters can take it if they roll lightning spells.

Some items also become indirectly buffed because they have lightning damage on them such as Hayon’ Fury would maybe become useful

I can only see good things coming from this, even tho I’m a damage over time player who will never touch that node

Yeah, I think the Perfect Agony buffs last league were the final nail in the coffin for RT. Because (as someone said already in this thread) you used to take RT for bleed builds back in Synthesis, so it was a very niche keystone taken by less than 1% of real builds and that's fine.

Then last league crit became the best way to play bleed ALSO, and RT serves absolutely zero purpose beyond a thing you might take while leveling and then spec out of later... if you happen to be playing one of the 2 builds that even path to that part of the tree early. And even then, it's probably better to just run a Precision aura instead.

RT seriously needs some kind of damage boost built into it, or it's just a meme. Maybe an automatic 10% More Damage With Hits would be enough to at least make it something you think about when planning out a build? SOMETHING.

problem is - if it is defensive buff it is still going to benefit the non-melee the most

you know what is the second best (cost vs power) build out there? Herald of Agony. how to proc it? Molten Strike + poison + RT. sure you can do that with ball lightning but MS is my fav so far and has much better single-target sustain

it is pretty depressing that no matter what you come up with - the melee, the f.. underdog benefits the least from it..

"

sidtherat wrote:

Spoiler

problem is - if it is defensive buff it is still going to benefit the non-melee the most

you know what is the second best (cost vs power) build out there? Herald of Agony. how to proc it? Molten Strike + poison + RT. sure you can do that with ball lightning but MS is my fav so far and has much better single-target sustain

it is pretty depressing that no matter what you come up with - the melee, the f.. underdog benefits the least from it..

Why not have RT always deal the maximum damage AND grant 100% increased Fortify + Guard skills effect for 1 sec if you hit an enemy in a <16 radius, as the perfect RT "buff"?

Then RT will serve as an easy way to know your damage via simply the max value * attack speed, and due to forfeiting any kind of further damage scaling, you have the proper incentive to TANK, as your fights will always be longer.

If you're stressed that DoT/minion builds have it too easy by speccing into RT, simply tag a further xx% less damage with DoT/minions and add other incentives for them to simply neglect RT - a couple of other DoT/minion focused wheels that buff their damage conditionally like EO does would suffice...

"

430714 wrote:

Bleed is actually pretty good with RT. And now after testing things out i could say that i felt more stable having RT and bleed instead of no RT and crit strike/accuracy nodes.

Looking further it seems that RT gives another advantage and that is quite the number of free passive points.. You dont need to invest in crit/accuracy mechanics, so you save up at least ~7-8 passive points. This can go towards impale/bleed or fortify or health for example.

Certainly true. But in the interest of making RT viable for hit builds, it could use a little something - or have passives behind it so that investment is still necessary to get the full benefit.

"

PyleWarlord wrote:

well you cant just simply put %more damage there without adding something like
-% less damage with bleeds/impale :P

you cant add more damage to it at all.



If you balance crit vs non crit attackers so they are both viable, and lets say you do it perfectly and end up with 50%+ of builds being non crit, you CANNOT do that by buffing RT. If you achieve that through buffing RT then in this ideal situation you will have 50%+ of attack builds having to use RT. So they will all have to path to that one point on the tree, that will be completely toxic for build diversity via tree diversity. A specific keystone should not be required in order to play a non crit attack build, that was how RT used to be and it was absolutely idiotic. You cannot buff RT, that would be awful for the game.


You balance crit vs non crit by nerfing crit, its that simple, not by buffing RT and not by nerfing accuracy. Any sane view on the game should make that obvious. Crit is no op because RT is bad, and its not op because accuracy is a minor investment, crit is op because crit is op, crit chance and more importantly crit multi, they are overpowered and you fix them by nerfing them directly for the most, supported by indirect nerfs that are healthy for the game. forcing RT down the throat of non crit builds is not healthy for the game.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

If you're using a melee weapon for attacks that has only 5% crit on it, you are in one of ONLY two categories:

• A Slayer taking the "Overwhelm" node that over-rides the crit on your weapon as 7.5%.
  
• Either making a failed crit build, or not building crit at all; in either case, not a viable build.

you can make viable non crit melee, but for the most part yes its shit. Where have you ever seen me say different?

Crit multiplier used to be multiplicative, do you remember that? If you got 200% crit multi on gear that was 200% INCREASED crit multiplier in the past, meaning that your base 150% crit multi was increased by 200%, which would give you 450%. Now crit multi is additive, so if you get 200% multi it adds to your base 150% and you end up with 350%. That change significantly reduced the power of crit. Given you think crit is now essentially mandatory, which is a fair statement, how broken would crit be right now without that change?

where did that change come from?

me.

Im the one who made posts suggesting crit multiplier was changed from multiplicative to additive in order to try and curb how ridiculous crit was becoming. It wasnt made by you or anyone else in this thread. Im very aware crit is overpowered, Ive made a ton of suggestions to curb the power of crit, some of which are in the game and if it wasnt for them the state of the game would be so much worse right now.

Crit should be nerfed, straight up, crit chance should be nerfed a bit but mainly crit multi, they need to absolutely obliterate sources of crit multi, especially on the tree. When they implemented my idea of additive crit multi people said "omg uve killed crit no one will be able to do damage now salt salt salt tears omg rip crit this is so terrible...", and I said at the time it didnt go far enough, not nearly far enough, and I was right. The buffed crit multi nodes on the tree to offset the change to multi being additive, so while ur multi on gear was nerfed the tree remained unchanged in its power. I said at the time ur not going far enough, you need to leave the tree values as they were, maybe even reduce them even further.

you seem to think you need to explain to me that crit is overpowered, im well aware, ive been aware and ive been making workable suggestions to solve this for years. this isnt a problem thats come around because of accuracy changes, this isnt a problem with RT as a node, this is a problem with crit itself and its been a problem for a crazy amount of time, many many years.


what im explaining to you is why you cant balance crit vs non crit via nerfing accuracy or buffing RT. im not saying crit is not a problem, of course crit is a problem.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

so what were the lines you deleted after my quote there?

It was where you talked big about Saffel's like it's a BiS super-meta, which... It's not.

no, i simply said for a non crit build its a way better shield than a lyco, which it is.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

What you're basically here is "It's not fair that in the past, it was an important decision as one of a clearly-defined set of ways to build."

no im not saying that at all. im saying that if the game was properly balance then at least 50% of melee builds would be non crit, and in the past when that was true and all of those builds felt forced to take 1 specific keystone to function it was diabolical.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

You might live in a separate reality, but in THIS reality, that did no such thing to "make non-crit, non-RT viable."

yes it did.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

Your argument that, somehow, there should be a "third way" compromise between "taking one node to never miss" and "investing to have crit" should be viable... That is, the option to "still invest and still never really crit." It's literally the worst of both worlds.

no its not, because you can reach 100% accuracy on a build like a ranger that is very far away from RT easier than making it to RT. Res tech is not worth the travel distance on a lot of non crit options vs just using accuracy. How viable it is to be non crit is not a part of that equation, try and remember that. you are arguing to make non crit viable, ok i get that, but non crit has to be in an actual healthy state when it becomes viable if you get what you want, and that means RT not being a mandatory node for everyone not going crit, which it currently isnt, and that is a good thing.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

Well, given that ~80% (10,502/13,220) of characters in Metamorph are using at least one keystone, (and of the other 2,718, 2/3 are SUMMONERS, with 64% being Necromancers!) AND GGG has repeatedly noted that they're pleased with the revised/new states of many keystones (including with tons of players taking them) you'll have to provide some sort of evidence for this claim.

theyre not all using the same keystone. theres a lot of keystones, u would expect most people to be using at least one keystone even if the keystones are for specific niches of builds.

"

ACGIFT wrote:

You're literally arguing that every single ascendancy is niche

no im not. i might, but i havent so far in this thread.

"

"

ACGIFT wrote:

Your argument that, somehow, there should be a "third way" compromise between "taking one node to never miss" and "investing to have crit" should be viable... That is, the option to "still invest and still never really crit." It's literally the worst of both worlds.

no its not, because you can reach 100% accuracy on a build like a ranger that is very far away from RT easier than making it to RT. Res tech is not worth the travel distance on a lot of non crit options vs just using accuracy. How viable it is to be non crit is not a part of that equation, try and remember that. you are arguing to make non crit viable, ok i get that, but non crit has to be in an actual healthy state when it becomes viable if you get what you want, and that means RT not being a mandatory node for everyone not going crit, which it currently isnt, and that is a good thing.

problem is - IT IS part of the equation. even if you cut the damage, game right now is 'cause something on crit'. all new mods are 'on crit'. tailwind on crit, extra damage on crit, trigger on crit, get this or that on crit.

game assumes you go crit. forgeting that and stopping 2/3 way with 100% accuracy but no crit investment is just stupid. damage or no damage.

it is 100% unrealistic at this point to pretend that crit is going to be nerfed. no chance for that. nor does it need to be buffed as it is already stupid strong. all attack classes have some boni to acc or crit (or both)

here is a little quiz:

What is my sheet, in-game crit change (pre temporary buffs etc) using these two 5% weapons as a Gladiator with phase Acro etc:



15%? 25%?

no

45%

swords and sword nodes being the best out there notwithstanding - getting crit is cheap, you get like half of it just taking sword nodes. the old theme of 'investing' into crit is a meme nowadays. and there is no opportunity cost - crit is mostly suffixes and multi from jewels. what are you going to get instead? there is nothing


even if you would remove crit multi altogether (aka crits dont deal extra damage AT ALL) going non crit is stupid in POE 3.9. we are FAR past the point of no return

"

sidtherat wrote:

all new mods are 'on crit'. tailwind on crit, extra damage on crit, trigger on crit, get this or that on crit.

Seriously ?
That's could be a problem then I guess, I also think that RT should not be BiS for non crit builds, at all, but if an always increasing number of things proc on crit ... that's just not good imo.

It pretty much means that if you buff RT to compensate, you leave the game with only 2 real choices :
- RT non crit
- non RT builds and you and heavily pushed into using on crit triggered things here and there

Apart from tailwind on crit and ele overload, what are significant "triggered on crit" buffs/effects at the moment ?
What is that "extra damage on crit" ?
What is "trigger on crit" ? cospri/CoC ? because those are niche builds that don't matter in this discussion.

Elusive on crit.

entire 'ailment rework' is a straight boost to crit

it is easier to reach 60-70% chance to shock with crit than by stacking 'chance to'. crit not only guarantees shock but also gives you BIGGER shock. recent rework gave A LOT of 'damage on crit' that you miss entirely going 'non crit'

sure, that assumes you do lightning damage etc, but same logic applies to freezes and ignites - it is still much easier to reliably freeze by focusing crit than focusing 'chance to'

other example are abyss jewels: 'get X% phys as fire if youve crit recently' and 'attack speed crit recently' etc. you cannot reliably proc these (quite strong) effects with 10% crit chance


and the worst part - going crit is cheap (excluding some setups that simply suck) and the days of 'investing into crit once i get more money' are LONG GONE. Precision solves most acc and some crit, ice golem adds yet another bit, some circumstantial nodes there and there, ascendancy bonus and you are at 25%. then automate assmark + power charges, pick some gear rolls, crit chest + crit support and you are at 50%. then the MOST IDIOTIC item out there - diamond flask and you wonder why there are still non-crit characters in the game at all