Having us kill civilians in Oriath Square is tasteless.

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007Bistromath wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

there is already more than enough of that already.

That isn't how art works. When you have an idea you finish it.

So, because of your completely arbitrary definition of art, nothing can be criticized ?

OK

No, that's not how 'art works' indeed, to resort to such blatant nonsense I guess you must really be running out if arguments (which is fine, as long as you don't do what you've been doing).

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007Bistromath wrote:

When other people see the meaning of something and you don't, continuing to insist it has no meaning is absurdly egotistical. I don't need to explain it, because I've no interest in dancing around somebody who is arguing in bad faith, which I have seen you do with every single post in this thread after the first one.

It's been a while since I've seen such an ironic post lol, really.

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Boem wrote:

It being tasteless is a mater of opinion, a valid one, but not the only one plausible interpretation and therefore doesn't have the punch to require change.

The thing is, I have yet to see a single explanation of why this is necessary or not tasteless.

There has been some silly (full of bad faith) "it's to show the cruelty of the world !" or similar ****.

You could have had both karui and citizensas allies and untargetable, and be powerless (not wanting to pick a side, or make it so that they die the moment you come in, or whatever else really, it could be anything. seeing them being slaughtered could make sense depending on how it's put), and would have witnessed the "cruelty of the world" like in many other places in this game without hanving the character made a sociopath for no actual reason.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

007Bistromath wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

there is already more than enough of that already.

That isn't how art works. When you have an idea you finish it.

So, because of your completely arbitrary definition of art, nothing can be criticized ?

OK

No, that's not how 'art works' indeed, to resort to such blatant nonsense I guess you must really be running out if arguments (which is fine, as long as you don't do what you've been doing).

You realize his definition holds true for every non commissioned piece of art right?

You have an idea and then you attempt to realize that idea.

The only difference between art on a further level is between how much room for interpretation is left for the viewer or is imposed by the creator.

Art can be criticized ad infinitum, though the more knowledge of art one posseses the less abstract that critique will be.
Picaso's later work seems fairly obvious for this, people without knowledge probably have no clue whats going on and people with knowledge and his history will see mastery of core elements.(a very dull example because of its common nature, but useable because of it)

Peace,

-Boem-

It does not.

"Finishing" a piece if art is merely a subjective notion up to the artist, not for anyone here to decide, and it's up to the artist to push it to that point ... or not, as it does not matter.


PoE as a piece of art supposed to be played forever will likely never be "finished".

Is this a problem ? no, because nobody fucking cares, apart from people without arguments who need (n bad faith really) to build a strawman of course.


I would rather use rational game design, logical reasonning to point out why something could use some change, bringing in 'art' here is stupid (only showing a lack of argument / capability to use reason), period.

Story board is a form of art
3d sculpture and graphical design is a form of art

Fruz, i don't even know if you realize this but you just did a bad-faith argumentation again?

Nobody is talking about path of exile in this thread as a whole, but purely about the oriath square scene which is in fact a finished product.(by all measurable accounts untill a mayor story board update comes along)

Trying to conflate the open ended nature of PoE as a whole with a particular scene between two waypoints in the middle of a set story line is a "bad faith argument" unless you want to feign ignorance on this part.

I could move on to the "don't bring in any arguments that involve art because i don't recognize them" when discussing a scene created by people who actually studied in the arts and went to art schools to master their crafts respectively.

This is exactly why i pointed out to bistromath "stick with your first conclusion that they act in bad faith". Because it's either that, ignorance or a profound blind spot for double standards.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

Nobody is talking about path of exile in this thread as a whole

Read the thread again maybe ?

Implying that this scene is necessary to show how cruel the world is is refering to the game as a whole.


Which is BS, that's merely what I am pointing out.



Art is irrelevant here, using art as just "it's art so it's fine" leads to knowhere (it implies that art is not something thought and constructed, and cannot be discussed which is aberrant really) and can only be the doing if people that I personally don't want to interact with, I was merely pointing ths BS, that's all.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

Nobody is talking about path of exile in this thread as a whole

Read the thread again maybe ?

Implying that this scene is necessary to show how cruel the world is is refering to the game as a whole.


Which is BS, that's merely what I am pointing out.



Art is irrelevant here, using art as just "it's art so it's fine" leads to knowhere (it implies that art is not something thought and constructed, and cannot be discussed which is aberrant really) and can only be the doing if people that I personally don't want to interact with, I was merely pointing ths BS, that's all.

No it's drawing a correlation to real life events to pull an emotional lever.

Our characters and the vilains we encounter are all kinds of mest-up. This is just another side of the mest-up coin.(remember the indignation or horror when we went to kill piety for the first time, the corpses and rivers of blood? Same freakshow, different collor)

I also think your being obtuse if you want to pretend the oriath scene doesn't fall within the story board part that is, lets say "unlikely to be modified in the foreseeable future", which might as well read as finished.(which was the point earlier)

Like i can sympathise with the "art is never finished" argument, but only from a rendering perspective because thats an actual trap and reality for artist.
But from a conceptual point of view, it really isn't the case.(or it shouldn't be the case for a professional, which i assume GGG hires)

I'm fairly confident this scene was constructed intently and with a certain amount of precision to reflect a story board element.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

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007Bistromath wrote:

I've been thinking about this. I'd like to reframe it.

Your reframing is nice, but you should stick with your initial interpretation that it's a discusion in bad faith.

The fact the scene has a plentitude of interpretations(as evident by this thread itself) is an artistic choice.

It being tasteless is a mater of opinion, a valid one, but not the only one plausible interpretation and therefore doesn't have the punch to require change.

And even if we go with the hypothesis that there is a general consensus that it is tasteless(which doesn't appear to be the case) we could question if this is an artistic choice and desired by the developers in order to get us emotionally engaged with the story.
(which again, this thread and the OP demonstrates thus making it a succesfull artistic choice)

It's not self-evident the emotion being provoked isn't aimed towards "disgust" or "eery chaos".

Peace,

-Boem-

This guy gets it. He gets it so hard he makes me look kind of clownish. Listen to this man.

Emotional engagement in an ARPG? Isn't this an oxymoron? The most emotionally engaged I get is when I get a crash.

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Boem wrote:

I also think your being obtuse if you want to pretend the oriath scene doesn't fall within the story board part that is, lets say "unlikely to be modified in the foreseeable future", which might as well read as finished.(which was the point earlier)

Like i can sympathise with the "art is never finished" argument, but only from a rendering perspective because thats an actual trap and reality for artist.
But from a conceptual point of view, it really isn't the case.(or it shouldn't be the case for a professional, which i assume GGG hires)

I'm fairly confident this scene was constructed intently and with a certain amount of precision to reflect a story board element.

I am not expecting it to change, I simply want to point out some of the fallacious crap being thrown at the OP as it is a valid complaint, and "but it's art" or "art is something that you have to finish" (which is BS) or "you are direspecting the artist here" (utter BS, writing this without being ashamed of it is a bit mind blowing to me) definitely fall into this category.


Sure, it was likely not done conpletely unthought and without a story board, details, etc .... people worked on this for sure.
That said, given the amount of amateurish things that GGG have been doing, I have no troubles thinking that many things at GGG are being done rushed, with not enough care.
What this piece of content rush ? that's hard to say, but I do think that the people who decided to have those fleeing citizens in their current state could have thought more about it.

Again, I don't mind it much, but thinking about it ... yeah, it's a bit odd, it could be done better.

Ok so question:

If you make the Oriath citizens allied to you, doesn't that mean in real gameplay that they then will be attacked by the Oriath soldiers?

How would you fix that?