As GGG is owned by TenCent..

"

LMTR14 wrote:

the prime example of this is "racism", a word that has so thoroughly lost any intrinsic meaning I flat out refuse to use it without the "". same thing obv. also happens with other -isms and -phobias (btw, phobia means FEAR, not HATRED. nobody is afraid of e.g. gays), strongly contributing to the linguistic decline we experience in this age. yes, (Western) people actually forget how to use their own languages nowadays, and obviously also something predicted by Orwell. and it's happening insanely quickly too!

Oh no he's started actually thinking for himself despite every forced reason to incentivize him not to socially and politically even reaching his past time videogame! How dare this man even use his central nervous system's reasoning and critical thinking skills and not just live like a mere prisoner even when simply left to his own confines! Shut it down! He's not down with the narrative. Quick! Take away his bank acocunt and job!! Ban him!!!

"

Boem wrote:

I think its fair to assume most people found his post and diatribe in poor taste.

That doesn't mean there wasn't a nugget of valid criticism in it.
And i assume you instigated it by your comment about it being a non-issue that conservatives are getting bans from financial institutions.

You basically threw a stone in the tribal warfare and got a response in kind, nothing out of the ordinary though his conduct could have been "better", let's go with that.

Getting banned in this day and age from global financial institutions and being blacklisted in those and affiliates is no laughing matter, i don't care which political opinion you hold i wouldn't feel glee about those people speaking up.

That's the same level of poor taste olympiacoz demonstrated.

Peace,

-Boem-

There was nothing in "poor taste" neither incorrect about what i wrote neither was describing the form of insane reasoning he expressed as wholly psychotic and nothing less than disgusting. However that he feigns ignorance in total dishonesty while at the same time uses words like 'hypocrisy' when caught out amuses me greatly, it really shows the type of character we're dealing with.

I take comfort in knowing that if these kind of psychotic ivory tower radicals filled with irrational hatred ever did ever succeed with something, they would eventually be destroyed by their own very same system. As before noted with "purges" and "great purges" in recent historical literature stemming from 1917. Soon enough his own bank or even worse would be taken away for casually disagreeing with the enforced narrative as well. What else to say than that the universe is not without a sense of irony.

"

Boem wrote:

The topics he handles are some of the darkest tendency's of the human nature and it's "finest moments" in history and the amount of people that read him seems to suggest he isn't boring in delivering that message either.

It's obviously your opinion, but without a contrast i cant really make much of it.

I guess that's my way of asking, what do you find interesting and mature?

Peace,

-Boem-

I thought it's about a guy living out his hedonistic fantasies fleeing the cruel real world imaging himself as some kind of freedom fighter while in the background an unrealistic system holds out as some weak kind of parable for the Evil of mankind. There is no tendency, only overblown ideas(which are easy, they don't need thought). This kind of writing is normally used for villains in children cartoons.


If i want to read something dystopian in would choose the much more realistic brave new world. (not realistic on the science side, but social one? oh yes.) If i would have to choose something recent i would name "the affinities" or maybe "Afterparty" Even Haterz or the movie Brazil gave me a lot more to fear in this regard. And i would not use the sheer sum of readers as any type of argument. If it was, some boulevard celebrity shit would probably the best book in the world.

"

tsunamikun wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

The topics he handles are some of the darkest tendency's of the human nature and it's "finest moments" in history and the amount of people that read him seems to suggest he isn't boring in delivering that message either.

It's obviously your opinion, but without a contrast i cant really make much of it.

I guess that's my way of asking, what do you find interesting and mature?

Peace,

-Boem-

I thought it's about a guy living out his hedonistic fantasies fleeing the cruel real world imaging himself as some kind of freedom fighter while in the background an unrealistic system holds out as some weak kind of parable for the Evil of mankind. There is no tendency, only overblown ideas(which are easy, they don't need thought). This kind of writing is normally used for villains in children cartoons.


If i want to read something dystopian in would choose the much more realistic brave new world. (not realistic on the science side, but social one? oh yes.) If i would have to choose something recent i would name "the affinities" or maybe "Afterparty" Even Haterz or the movie Brazil gave me a lot more to fear in this regard. And i would not use the sheer sum of readers as any type of argument. If it was, some boulevard celebrity shit would probably the best book in the world.

I think "hedonistic fantasies" is a bit of a stretch as far as critique goes.

I don't think wanting to experience a semblance of freedom and love in a very restricted setting is particularly hedonistic.

I also think his book is quite applicable to for example current climate activists, similar to how i think "brave new world" is applicable to the heroine crissises and for example what gamers do as far as social construction and regulation goes.

As far as the "evil backdrop of mankind" goes, both brave new world and 1984 have it so i don't understand why it would be fair to say of the one its childish and of the other its fine.

They both play with the tendency's of structure vs freedom or movement vs rigidity and ways how they could come about and exceed desired levels of either.

I find both of them solid and a nice attempt at forecast, probably both wrong with a nugget of truth in them and revealing some fundamental tendency's we exhibit irrelevant of century.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : also, do you know how the chinese credit system functions currently? The "unrealistic system in the background" isnt nearly as unrealistic with todays technology.

"

Olympiacoz wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

I think its fair to assume most people found his post and diatribe in poor taste.

That doesn't mean there wasn't a nugget of valid criticism in it.
And i assume you instigated it by your comment about it being a non-issue that conservatives are getting bans from financial institutions.

You basically threw a stone in the tribal warfare and got a response in kind, nothing out of the ordinary though his conduct could have been "better", let's go with that.

Getting banned in this day and age from global financial institutions and being blacklisted in those and affiliates is no laughing matter, i don't care which political opinion you hold i wouldn't feel glee about those people speaking up.

That's the same level of poor taste olympiacoz demonstrated.

Peace,

-Boem-

There was nothing in "poor taste" neither incorrect about what i wrote neither was describing the form of insane reasoning he expressed as wholly psychotic and nothing less than disgusting. However that he feigns ignorance in total dishonesty while at the same time uses words like 'hypocrisy' when caught out amuses me greatly, it really shows the type of character we're dealing with.

I take comfort in knowing that if these kind of psychotic ivory tower radicals filled with irrational hatred ever did ever succeed with something, they would eventually be destroyed by their own very same system. As before noted with "purges" and "great purges" in recent historical literature stemming from 1917. Soon enough his own bank or even worse would be taken away for casually disagreeing with the enforced narrative as well. What else to say than that the universe is not without a sense of irony.

You could have made your point without depicting xMustard like an evilish cartoon and thats why it's a diatribe.

I know for example that 90% of your cartoonish representation of him is false, since i have been on these boards for seven years and he has been on here for a long time.

If you think caricature somehow helps in a dialogue, or helps when making an argument or changing somebody's worldview then i have bad news for you.

Your criticism about the bank ban was valid, like i said it was, everything you added beyond that was in bad-faith and poor taste.
You can dispute that, it's just my opinion, we can have different viewpoints of what constitutes civility.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : also, nobody is above hypocrisy or beyond flaws. That's why we invented saints or exalt a single action in time as "saintlike", humans are flawed creatures by nature.

"

Boem wrote:

You could have made your point without depicting xMustard like an evilish cartoon and thats why it's a diatribe.

I know for example that 90% of your cartoonish representation of him is false, since i have been on these boards for seven years and he has been on here for a long time.

If you think caricature somehow helps in a dialogue, or helps when making an argument or changing somebody's worldview then i have bad news for you.

Your criticism about the bank ban was valid, like i said it was, everything you added beyond that was in bad-faith and poor taste.
You can dispute that, it's just my opinion, we can have different viewpoints of what constitutes civility.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : also, nobody is above hypocrisy or beyond flaws. That's why we invented saints or exalt a single action in time as "saintlike", humans are flawed creatures by nature.

Here's a poor taste to you as well my friend. Yeah I'm so sorry i disagreed there with your old time pal buddy, adults can have disagreeances you know, and it's no big deal.

All your irrelevant cartoon and caricature comments aside that being said I think it would come to you as a shock that at times what people do, their reasoning and their actual rationale or should i say irrationale is even stranger, crazier than whatever fictional cartoon you could come up with. Know what i mean? Like how winnie the pooh is banned in China, and after an innocent mention of that cartoon bear in connection with the party boss will render you in such states as being unable to even board a train or leaving your area code. Surely a happy place filled with rainbows and gum drop skies. And here's the kicker: That's not even just one guy, it's an entire system comprised of millions of government workers.

"

Boem wrote:

I think "hedonistic fantasies" is a bit of a stretch as far as critique goes.

I don't think wanting to experience a semblance of freedom and love in a very restricted setting is particularly hedonistic.

I also think his book is quite applicable to for example current climate activists, similar to how i think "brave new world" is applicable to the heroine crissises and for example what gamers do as far as social construction and regulation goes.

As far as the "evil backdrop of mankind" goes, both brave new world and 1984 have it so i don't understand why it would be fair to say of the one its childish and of the other its fine.

They both play with the tendency's of structure vs freedom or movement vs rigidity and ways how they could come about and exceed desired levels of either.

I find both of them solid and a nice attempt at forecast, probably both wrong with a nugget of truth in them and revealing some fundamental tendency's we exhibit irrelevant of century.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : also, do you know how the chinese credit system functions currently? The "unrealistic system in the background" isnt nearly as unrealistic with todays technology.

Hedonistic is the right word^^ It not about what he wants, but what he does. And that is running away, hiding, abusing drugs and fucking. Let's not make him more noble than he is, that would remove last vestige of a good character from him. Because this was what mostly fascinated me about him. His pronounced human failings.
As for the system: it completely unrealistic even compared to brave new world. The former sets up completely externally controlled society. While it's a good description of a nightmare, it is just that. In the latter the society controls itself, a system that is actually used right now. And there are many other books about this kind of thing with a lot of other systems. Few are that black and white.

And yes I know what the party wants you to believe how their social system will work. But it won't. Too easy to abuse the system for random persons. Kinda like amazon product reviews actually. And even for this to try, you already need a totalitarian regime in power.

"

tsunamikun wrote:

And yes I know what the party wants you to believe how their social system will work. But it won't. Too easy to abuse the system for random persons. Kinda like amazon product reviews actually. And even for this to try, you already need a totalitarian regime in power.

I bassicaly read that as "no i don't know about the current testing city's china is alpha testing the score system in and the current results and leaks"

But i would be happy to be wrong.

Ever seen that video online of actors beating up a women in china on various locations to see what the general public would do?(to be clear, the women and assailents were all actors intending to do a social experiment, seeing if people would respond or help)
It's very interesting if your into psychology and collective thinking etc.

Also i don't think using soma can be called "controlling yourself". That's why i drew the paralel with the heroine crisis. I'm pretty certain the people on it don't want it other then to escape and be drowned out of their mind and current situation.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

I bassicaly read that as "no i don't know about the current testing city's china is alpha testing the score system in and the current results and leaks"

But i would be happy to be wrong.

A country were any criticism ends you in some labor camp is already all controlling. They just want to make it easier. Unfortunately this already backfiring. Most companies won't share data or even use it for personal gains, citizens use the system open design to expose any undesirable to the public. No monitoring of companies outside of financial transactions etc. The system is weak and only designed for top-level surveillance. Of course it will be implemented, but it will fail. Because it won't reach it intended use. The country will get poorer, and crime will grow. Not the other way around.

"

Ever seen that video online theof actors beating up a women in china on various locations to see what the general public would do?(to be clear, the women and assailents were all actors intending to do a social experiment, seeing if people would respond or help)
It's very interesting if your into psychology and collective thinking etc.

That experiment is quite old but i didn't see the chinese version. But as always the only collective thinking that happens there is usually the same all over the world: What is someone else doing about this?

"

Also i don't think using soma can be called "controlling yourself". That's why i drew the paralel with the heroine crisis. I'm pretty certain the people on it don't want it other then to escape and be drowned out of their mind and current situation.

Peace,

-Boem-

But it is. Nobody forces them to use it, only themselves. There are no real danger to SOMA at all so drawing a parallel to heroin is kinda strange. They do have the option not to use it and nobody would really care. Also the point of brave new world is not the drug, but the caste system and expectations as well as social norms planted into the citizens. The drug is just a small cog in it's controlling system. The actual controlling comes the people and their expectations depending on their roles as alphas, betas etc. This is beautifully brought to the point by Mond.

"

tsunamikun wrote:

A country were any criticism ends you in some labor camp is already all controlling. They just want to make it easier. Unfortunately this already backfiring. Most companies won't share data or even use it for personal gains, citizens use the system open design to expose any undesirable to the public. No monitoring of companies outside of financial transactions etc. The system is weak and only designed for top-level surveillance. Of course it will be implemented, but it will fail. Because it won't reach it intended use. The country will get poorer, and crime will grow. Not the other way around.

You know what panopticon is? Or what the theory behind it is?

It's very fascinating in combination with current day technology and developments.

"

tsunamikun wrote:

That experiment is quite old but i didn't see the chinese version. But as always the only collective thinking that happens there is usually the same all over the world: What is someone else doing about this?

Except that in western city's that did that experiment, people stop the assailants quite regularly during the test.
While in the China version, they literally repeated the experiment 46 times and only once was it stopped by a random "hero". Everybody else totally ignored it and didn't want anything to do with it.

"

tsunamikun wrote:

But it is. Nobody forces them to use it, only themselves. There are no real danger to SOMA at all so drawing a parallel to heroin is kinda strange. They do have the option not to use it and nobody would really care. Also the point of brave new world is not the drug, but the caste system and expectations as well as social norms planted into the citizens. The drug is just a small cog in it's controlling system. The actual controlling comes the people and their expectations depending on their roles as alphas, betas etc. This is beautifully brought to the point by Mond.

Soma is literally the reason why people only live to 61 in a brave new world, it's a slow acting poison that grants bliss which is why i compare it to heroine. My estimation is that we are inside brave new world currently and working our way towards the capability of 1984, obviously not exactly as described but we can see a lot of parallels.
Heroine could easily be seen as a "botched soma" with the contrast of brave new world on it.

As far as the social expectations etc, well that one is proven to be tricky since women specifically are going insane with the new tech developments.
(look up self harm of teens since 2006 if im not mistaken, the first generation that had full access to social platforms pre-teen)

Turns out that managing expectations when everybody is comparing himself with the "best" the world has to offer instead of the neighbourhood is proving dangerous and harmfull no to mention the tools utilized to fake certain things like pictures etc.
Entirelly destructive for young girls who are very socially oriented.

The caste system doesn't need much explaining right, just look at the atrocities of india and its past. It bassicaly shifts in-out group focus to social economical traits rather then keeping it focused on the family unit.

It's like people going "its all the ceo's fault" in todays rhetoric, caste systems allow easy low grade representations of the other.

Both books are fascinating in my opinion and make errors, but i think both demonstrate the urge for utopian thinking within humans and demonstrate parts of human nature and how that nature can be "taken for a ride".

This post became longer then i intended and went all over the place, apologies.

Peace,

-Boem-