Challenges were pretty good except one

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

Challenge is to be patient and willing to play the game long enough.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

Challenge is to be patient and willing to play the game long enough.

This is the crux of what people take issue with.

So-called challenges which actually challenge your skill and knowledge feel good to complete for most of us, because you are being rewarded for personal qualities that feel legitimately valuable.

So-called challenges which ding upon a lucky RNG roll or after grinding for hours on end don't feel good to complete for most of us, because you are being rewarded for qualities that don't feel legitimately valuable (dumb luck and willingness not to have a life, respectively).

I finished the Chayula challenge (kill inside a regular breach), and you know what? I felt nothing. I didn't accomplish anything; the game accomplished it, almost completely without my input. This is utterly meaningless; it was not a challenge whatsoever.

If PoE's challenge system were more substantially based on challenges that felt legitimate I (and I suspect many others) would be far more willing to engage the system, not to mention enjoy engaging the system. Let's not forget that this is a game, after all. You're supposed to be enjoying it. (And if you are not, then why the hell play? There are far more productive uses of your time, if you are willing to engage unfun activities.)

As things stand, however, it's hard not to consider anyone engaging the system to be GGG's chump and victim rolled into one. (Apologies to my friends who do go for 40/40 every league. I think you are victims too.)

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

Loved the character bound challenges. I think we need more of these so they can make a difference between real players and challenge buyers.

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Phaeded wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

Loved the character bound challenges. I think we need more of these so they can make a difference between real players and challenge buyers.

40/40 SSF is for real players. Doing it in trade is too easy.

Haha! Just kidding. Grats... you did it again! But seriously, lots of the challenges are still lucky, aka RNG based, and some much tougher SSF, not just a couple. To list the ones I noticed:

Defeat blight rare monsters
Defeat rogue exiles
Anoint items (Blight unique SSF)
Defeat blight unique monsters
Complete synthesis unique map (SSF)
Defeat blight lanes (7 & 8)
Complete these Encounters V (possessed beyond boss and beachhead)
Complete unique maps (SSF)
Complete these Encounters VI (All of them)
Complete blighted maps (SSF)
Complete Endgame Grinds (Blighted maps SSF, so not necessary but drop rates are horrible)

For me those are all RNG gated. Definitely not as bad as past leagues though. I recall Delve was pretty fucking bad in that regard. Even you struggled with those Delve challenges if I remember right.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

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Galtrovan wrote:

I think the challenges I have not completed are BS.

They are not challenges. They are tedious, time consuming, nonsense.

I planned and built my character. I then find:

- This is impossible because I don't do chaos damage only. Had I built a chaos damage only character it would be no-brainer, automatic easy.
- This is impossible because I kill too fast or don't do single target. Had I built around a single target skilled that added AOE via a gem, it would be no-brainer, automatic easy.
- This is no-brainer, automatic easy, but I'm not repeatedly doing 100, 150, or 525 times over, etc.
- Etc.

As soon as I see more than 4 of these in the challenge list, I'm done, because these are stupid, and not fun.

I wouldnt call them stupid. Some are just grinds which is perfectly fine. Challenge is to be patient and willing to play the game long enough.

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Galtrovan wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

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Galtrovan wrote:

I think the challenges I have not completed are BS.

They are not challenges. They are tedious, time consuming, nonsense.

I planned and built my character. I then find:

- This is impossible because I don't do chaos damage only. Had I built a chaos damage only character it would be no-brainer, automatic easy.
- This is impossible because I kill too fast or don't do single target. Had I built around a single target skilled that added AOE via a gem, it would be no-brainer, automatic easy.
- This is no-brainer, automatic easy, but I'm not repeatedly doing 100, 150, or 525 times over, etc.
- Etc.

As soon as I see more than 4 of these in the challenge list, I'm done, because these are stupid, and not fun.

I wouldnt call them stupid. Some are just grinds which is perfectly fine. Challenge is to be patient and willing to play the game long enough.

Some grind with the character I decided to play, OK. Try and force me to build multiple characters I don't care about, nor that I want to play, just to tick a box, a box that in and of itself is brain-dead easy... sorry, I'm not doing that. It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. I will decide how to play it, not be told how I have to play it.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

Challenge is to be patient and willing to play the game long enough.

This is the crux of what people take issue with.

So-called challenges which actually challenge your skill and knowledge feel good to complete for most of us, because you are being rewarded for personal qualities that feel legitimately valuable.

So-called challenges which ding upon a lucky RNG roll or after grinding for hours on end don't feel good to complete for most of us, because you are being rewarded for qualities that don't feel legitimately valuable (dumb luck and willingness not to have a life, respectively).

I finished the Chayula challenge (kill inside a regular breach), and you know what? I felt nothing. I didn't accomplish anything; the game accomplished it, almost completely without my input. This is utterly meaningless; it was not a challenge whatsoever.

If PoE's challenge system were more substantially based on challenges that felt legitimate I (and I suspect many others) would be far more willing to engage the system, not to mention enjoy engaging the system. Let's not forget that this is a game, after all. You're supposed to be enjoying it. (And if you are not, then why the hell play? There are far more productive uses of your time, if you are willing to engage unfun activities.)

As things stand, however, it's hard not to consider anyone engaging the system to be GGG's chump and victim rolled into one. (Apologies to my friends who do go for 40/40 every league. I think you are victims too.)

But people were complaining when it was about your skill to complete the cortex/delve boss challenges .Delve bosses had infinite tries(as long as you had the sulphite) and synthesis bosses had 6 portals. Do you think they shouldnt have been in the game too?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I'm not connecting your dots, but perhaps I can answer your question anyhow:

To the extent boss completion is based on RNG, it does not feel like a meaningful challenge to me, no. As I said above with regards to Chayula, it feels like the game has completed the challenge for me when the boss finally appears, not like I myself have. I'm just along for the ride. Challenges to a gamer's patience (to use your description) per se never amount to good game design, imo, in literally any genre of video game.

I seem to recall people complaining about the rarity of certain Delve bosses? I don't know about Synthesis; I skipped most of that league due to its glitchy and buggy implementation (though I thought the idea itself was great, and that it would have been MUCH better received had it only gotten a bit more testing and TLC prior to release).

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I'm not connecting your dots, but perhaps I can answer your question anyhow:

To the extent boss completion is based on RNG, it does not feel like a meaningful challenge to me, no. As I said above with regards to Chayula, it feels like the game has completed the challenge for me when the boss finally appears, not like I myself have. I'm just along for the ride. Challenges to a gamer's patience (to use your description) per se never amount to good game design, imo, in literally any genre of video game.

I seem to recall people complaining about the rarity of certain Delve bosses? I don't know about Synthesis; I skipped most of that league due to its glitchy and buggy implementation (though I thought the idea itself was great, and that it would have been MUCH better received had it only gotten a bit more testing and TLC prior to release).

My point was; even when it came to player's personal being tested, people were complaining about how hard they were.
I accept that there is rng involved in finding these bosses but people didnt like when it was hard to complete these bosses.
I will rephrase my question;
If those bosses were not gated behind rng or sulphite or even portals,do you think they should have involved those challenges?