I need an automated trading mechanic to enjoy this game again

I stopped playing PoE because of the lack of automated trade. I only logged in 1-2 days before Legion to see what my guild did with the items I put in the guild bank. I'm guessing I need higher permissions to view the guild vault from the website, but I digress...


I don't care if an automated solution is not an AH. I don't care if there's a limit to be automatically traded at a time (for example, 10 items maximum until something sells). I don't care if there is some kind of tax/fee for placing items on the market to be automatically purchased later...

...at least make automated trade an option so I don't feel held back from playing the game whenever I do want to buy or sell something.


This is precisely why I'm looking forward to [Last Epoch]'s Bazaar implementation, after multiplayer is worked on. Instead of being unreasonably stubborn like GGG, EHG plans to correct a lot of the flaws that PoE has in their game [Last Epoch] before official release hits...

...and yes, lack of automated trade is viewed as a flaw by those developers and by players who have played PoE and want a new ARPG experience.

"

Tolerantzdestr0yer wrote:

"

Cyzax wrote:

Not going to happen:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870
Confirmed still 100% valid in GGGs latest Q&A session.

You and MrsDeath_ are always there when it comes to begging for AH or rework of trading system.

Instead of bringing up arguments you copy paste that pathetic excuse not to work on the game which is hidden behind that link.

This games economy is garbage to begin with and misses the point of what a ARPG should be.

Why shouldn't I participate? In-game economies is an area I've been very interested in since I worked on a MUD back in the 90's :-)

Amazingly, that MUD is still running!
https://muds.fandom.com/wiki/Deeper_Trouble

In essence, my experience, and the experience of any game who've tried to make an ingame economy is that for it to work, it needs to reflect all aspects of a real-world economy.
That means there has to be production cost (PoE hasn't got that), transport cost (not that either), trading cost (PoE has that now, due to the time it takes to buy/sell items, but this would disappear with an AH), and trade goods have to 'break' or wear out (PoE items doesn't).

A game like EVE Online gets it! There's a cost to everything (in time spent), and everything gets used up or destroyed eventually.
Most other MMO games doesn't, and thus they can't create a viable economy. Doing so is hard!

As for not bringing up arguments... GGGs trade manifesto is the argument! They get it! They know that easy trading would destroy the game, thus they're not going to have it.

"

Apachy wrote:

Kulze
My applauds!
GGG should hire you ASAP or take your consultations.

White knigts (who are defending GGG at all cost) do not realise that they are doing more harm than good. However, numbers, which GGG does not show us but which we can find ourselfs (at least some of them), tell us that situation is getting out of control. Core players are frustrated and leaving.

Almost all of these "white knights" of yours are core players, arguably much more core players than the ones who left the game behind over trivial shit.

Please learn to discuss without attacking others personally, it really only serves to make you look bad.

"

Xavathos wrote:

Almost all of these "white knights" of yours are core players, arguably much more core players than the ones who left the game behind over trivial shit.

Please learn to discuss without attacking others personally, it really only serves to make you look bad.

Sorry, but I did not attack others personally. Unless you consider calling "White knight" offensive.
"Arguably" is the keyword here because judging by the online statistic (which is dropping all the time with every league), it is quite possible that there will be nobody left but like you in the game.

"

Apachy wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

Almost all of these "white knights" of yours are core players, arguably much more core players than the ones who left the game behind over trivial shit.

Please learn to discuss without attacking others personally, it really only serves to make you look bad.

Sorry, but I did not attack others personally. Unless you consider calling "White knight" offensive.
"Arguably" is the keyword here because judging by the online statistic (which is dropping all the time with every league), it is quite possible that there will be nobody left but like you in the game.

So are you saying calling others white knights is not antagonising them then?

If it's not, why do you do it? I'm curious.
Why not just call them people instead? Surely, you could agree that it would be more sensible.

"

Xavathos wrote:

So are you saying calling others white knights is not antagonising them then?

If it's not, why do you do it? I'm curious.
Why not just call them people instead? Surely, you could agree that it would be more sensible.

In short, it is a description of their viewpoint. Which means that they put GGG up on a pedestal regardless of the situation. It is also called a Blind faith.
The problem of arguing with such people is that it is not possible to find a common ground which is mandatory if both sides want to solve the problem and come to an agreement.

"

Cyzax wrote:

In essence, my experience, and the experience of any game who've tried to make an ingame economy is that for it to work, it needs to reflect all aspects of a real-world economy.

It's true, for ETERNAL economy.
But PoE cant systain eternal economy with its current game mechanics, that' why we have 3-month leagues. And for 3-month economy only, we dont need all that stuff.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

Cyzax wrote:

In essence, my experience, and the experience of any game who've tried to make an ingame economy is that for it to work, it needs to reflect all aspects of a real-world economy.

It's true, for ETERNAL economy.
But PoE cant systain eternal economy with its current game mechanics, that' why we have 3-month leagues. And for 3-month economy only, we dont need all that stuff.

Except for one difference... and that is between unbalancing the economy towards the end of a league (current system), or destroying it on day one (with an AH)...

"

Cyzax wrote:

In essence, my experience, and the experience of any game who've tried to make an ingame economy is that for it to work, it needs to reflect all aspects of a real-world economy.

First of all your personal experience only shows you haven't properly looked into several in-game economies therefore, secondly you're generalizing there.
Since:

"

Cyzax wrote:

That means there has to be production cost (PoE hasn't got that), transport cost (not that either), trading cost (PoE has that now, due to the time it takes to buy/sell items, but this would disappear with an AH), and trade goods have to 'break' or wear out (PoE items doesn't).

is a bit skewed the whole notion also is slightly skewed.

Any in-game economy is the same as any RL economy would be under the same situation.
Hence all a good economy needs to have is a so called 'flow of goods', which means stuff needs to get into the economy and needs to get out as well, this is the baseline for any working economy, the how is another topic overall.

So, given we have PoE the limitations at the moment are:
Input:
-Speed for obtaining currency
-Speed for obtaining top-tier rares
-Speed for obtaining perfectly rolled uniques
Output:
-Consumable usage
-League-only players basically 'voiding' the items.
-Standard players stopping to play.

While it's true that items aren't removed from the game usually the players are removing themself. Sure... they could come back later on, but the chances are small, the majority stops playing after a few years latest, not enough to even make a single 'perfect' character.

Also since the general god-tier item needs 2000+ ex only a small amount will ever reach this height, doing it yourself would mean to invest a lot of time into the game to gather those resources, hence they have to come from somewhere... meaning the players which won't get that far.

So no... PoE's economy would even be sustained with swift trade, the lower-end is the only part affected, high-end equipment as well as top-tier in the category of mirror- and god-tier items wouldn't even be touched by such a change.

"

Cyzax wrote:

A game like EVE Online gets it! There's a cost to everything (in time spent), and everything gets used up or destroyed eventually.
Most other MMO games doesn't, and thus they can't create a viable economy. Doing so is hard!

Eve has a great economy, they are doing it quite right... though also there the ONLY reason for the economy to sustain itself is PvP. With the changes over time the game has seen we easily can assume that an 'age of peace' could happen for a short amount of time there. This would cause mineral prices to plummet into nothingness as well... not a bother at all though, several other venues of creating their currency available.

The same situation is existing in PoE, if your currency is worthless then you'll move over to creating top-tier items, this in return will actually raise prices as - said above - a single god-tier item has the ability to 'drain' the whole market by quite a lot, the reason why fossils in Standard are so extremely high priced while enchanted helmets are comparatively low on the other hand, the actual difficulty for acquisition is taken into perspective more properly, a notion which the 'hard trading' tries to stop and causing issues by doing so.

"

Cyzax wrote:

As for not bringing up arguments... GGGs trade manifesto is the argument! They get it! They know that easy trading would destroy the game, thus they're not going to have it.

The Trade Manifesto is an amalgamation of assumptions and an actual lack of economical understanding. GGG took examples from other games which failed in the respective area without taking their time to acquire solutions.

-AH's aren't inherently bad.
-Automated trade isn't inherently bad.
-Client-side automation (Bots) are depending on the ease of use, something existing both with the API as well as a fully integrated system, second having actually more options to hinder those.
-Options for 'item removal' are able to be implemented on a reward-based system, increasing the corruption-mechanics further or re-introducing a similar system to Synthesis-fusing... but properly.

Once again there are several venues to take into consideration, the general notion is denied inside the Trade Manifesto though, giving the perception it's the pinnacle of trading... which obviously isn't the case.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

It's true, for ETERNAL economy.
But PoE cant systain eternal economy with its current game mechanics, that' why we have 3-month leagues. And for 3-month economy only, we dont need all that stuff.

Let's go from the perspective of Standard though, it's a far better way to discern just how the economy works long-term.

Given how prices changed over time as well as the usual speed of power-creep (outside the last few leagues) we can easily say the economy is able to be sustained for at least a decade longer. Without power-creep we might have 2-3 years in total... though since changes are common this expectation rises each time. The effect power-creep has is taken with a vastly lower number though as actually it creates an endless system, given it is endlessly continued.

Also we have to take into consideration how many 'perfected' characters do exist. Commonly mirror-tier items aren't touched besides changing enchantments, the sockets or mirroring it. Those items are - obviously - only corrupted in very rare cases, and then that's a single chance.
Hence we have a whooping 0, zero, none, nada 'finished' characters yet in the game. This in itself means space upwards is there for a looooong time still.

"

Cyzax wrote:

Except for one difference... and that is between unbalancing the economy towards the end of a league (current system), or destroying it on day one (with an AH)...

Once again a fallacy though. It's not becoming 'unbalanced' but actually stable. The general increase in specific items brings their price to what supply/reward demands (within a degree) for end-game crafting. Those prices would adjust to roughly the same as seen in Standard if kept indefinitely. That's not 'unbalanced', your definition is fairly faulty there.

Also the de-valuation of uniques is a very obvious thing. They have a small range of rolls usually, some can be target-farmed and besides sockets and corruptions there are no possible interactions for them present. Hence they are fairly static and therefore become worthless over time.

This is an issue regarding uniques in most games, creating more options to further interact with them and create a specific upgrade-system regarding those would take care of that, it's not the responsibility of the trade-system to take care of limited options. That is only viable short-term... PoE's trading-system had several such stop-gaps implemented to take care of shortcomings, long-term by now, hence why people are getting frustrated as new implementations showcase those stop-gaps ever stronger and actually hinder 'proper' progression in some cases.

"

Apachy wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

So are you saying calling others white knights is not antagonising them then?

If it's not, why do you do it? I'm curious.
Why not just call them people instead? Surely, you could agree that it would be more sensible.

In short, it is a description of their viewpoint. Which means that they put GGG up on a pedestal regardless of the situation. It is also called a Blind faith.
The problem of arguing with such people is that it is not possible to find a common ground which is mandatory if both sides want to solve the problem and come to an agreement.

But don't you see that it's YOUR viewpoint of THEM, not actually their viewpoint on the subject? Whether or not someone is a "white knight" by your standards is completely irrelevant to any subject posted. I could paint each and every one of you as purple aliens with 6 arms and a blonde mustache, quite stylish, and it wouldn't make a speck of difference. So I keep it to myself, as perhaps you should as well. Unless, like I said, you like antagonising others.