Ending the Speed Meta, or Redefining Chris Wilson's "better builds are faster"

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Bardharr wrote:

Ok, I would like to point out that your suggestions for "incentivizing" slower gameplay are all about punishing faster gameplay instead. This may be a hint at a larger problem with you suggestion or ideals.

On the other hand, many of the things that incentivise faster gameplay also punish slower gameplay.
Breach, Abyss, Legion, Synthesis, Shaper/Elder fights, Incursion.

You wouldn't say that this is a hint at a larger problem, but others might.

Anyway, it's a moot point; GGG aren't ever going to hit the brakes on this speed-train.

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poeGT wrote:

Everything in life is about efficiency. If you can do something for even the same result but faster, then you will take that path.

Go play a slow game then if you want to waddle and be deliberately hamstrung for some odd satisfaction.

It's like complaining fast twitch FPS games like CS are too based on speed+reaction and need "slowing down".

You can't balance things being the same slow vs fast, fast is just overall better and you have to decide if you like that style.

You should never be rewarded equally for doing the same task but slower that's just stupid. And adding concrete walls to stop fast play will kill your franchise faster than anything. Stop listening to the idiotic minority.

Yes, efficiency. Some of my ideas have addressed this. Take the map mod examples I listed.

If they implemented the map mod "player speed cannot be modified above base" and included 400% item quantity and 400% item rarity to that map mod, that'd certainly give you some pause, wouldn't it? And that's exactly the point of what I mean about incentivizing slower builds.

But, to you, and Chris Wilson, and everyone else who would argue for efficiency, there's 2 kinds of efficiency.

One, which this game has mostly adopted, is chewing through things of no value in order to get a return. Burning through tons of monsters that generally would've dropped nothing anyway. Like a mass produced, factory made knife.

The other, which is taking more time, but getting through something of much higher value. Getting through relatively tougher mobs or situations for exceedingly higher and worthwhile value. Like a hand crafted, detailed chef's knife with a full tang, and hardened steel that hold its edge longer.

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crystalwitch wrote:

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Bardharr wrote:

Ok, I would like to point out that your suggestions for "incentivizing" slower gameplay are all about punishing faster gameplay instead. This may be a hint at a larger problem with you suggestion or ideals.

On the other hand, many of the things that incentivise faster gameplay also punish slower gameplay.
Breach, Abyss, Legion, Synthesis, Shaper/Elder fights, Incursion.

You wouldn't say that this is a hint at a larger problem, but others might.

Anyway, it's a moot point; GGG aren't ever going to hit the brakes on this speed-train.

Please don't assume to know my entire stance on the state of the game based on a quickly written 4 paragraph post on a forum, thanks.

Now that that's out of the way, I would like to say that I am all for removing timed challenges in PoE. For one, I have played many slower builds in the past and always hated how the timers arbitrarily affected me while in incursions etc. On the other hand, these timers don't affect fast builds, so removing them won't even affect them anyway.

But again, removing timers is not really an incentive to play slower builds, so it's mostly beside the point.

Agree 100% with OP, but i don't bother anymore. This is a RMT venture with a joke gameplay and rates.

Competition is showing up, Chaosbane got new content, Inq Martyr got revamped and new exp coming soon, Wolcen got new content + revamp.
Added bonus: trash online only trade is not a main factor for your chars. Which is also the main reason why gameplay speed is NORMAL and nobody cares about doing exalts/h


GL with playing the same ubermeta build TS/ED/Cyclone for 3x leagues (9months) and more over and over, simply because GGG seems to be utterly unable to get a balance or create capped ceilings on dmg and speed (which are like in any other ARPG)

Chaosbane is a joke. I cant imagine anyone spending more than a day running though the bland content collecting bland loot.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Chaosbane is a joke. I cant imagine anyone spending more than a day running though the bland content collecting bland loot.

Yea because one gazilion mod rolls on the same item for a decent roll in a 500+ id's in PoE is good right?

Plus the utter absence of loot tables and targeted mob farming, don't mention me cards because with current rates it is gonna be 1 completed set per multiple hundreds of the same one map

Plus crafting 2k alts attempts to roll a t1 item + 50% chance to fail annul and do it again

IMO, all they have to do, is to not balance their game around a certain speed threshold. I couldn't care less about other people or how they play. But when encounters and boss fights are being balanced around "do it as fast as you can before the timer runs out", the game has serious issues. Especially when the rewards/loot/drops are balanced around doing it a certain amount of times before the timer runs out.

With decisions like this, they are directly forcing a certain speed threshold upon the players. Not only are they funneling down diversity (especially diversity when it comes to play styles), they are also telling you how to play. That is very bad in an RPG.

But Chris has been pretty direct and open about his stance on the matter. "Slow builds suck, fast builds should be everyone's goal" (more or less).

I played the game when it was slow, and it most certainly was not a better game.

keep your speed but dont make another league with timer lol

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crystalwitch wrote:

On the other hand, many of the things that incentivise faster gameplay also punish slower gameplay.
Breach, Abyss, Legion, Synthesis, Shaper/Elder fights, Incursion.

I haven't done Shaper/Elder fights yet so I can't speak on that, but none of those others punish slow gameplay other than legion (Why it probably won't go core). I know for a fact all of those can be completed at base move speed. Are you trying to say they should reward slow characters that deal no damage too?