General Discussion - Ending the Speed Meta, or Redefining Chris Wilson's "better builds are faster" - Forum

" Also PoE caps the level of content you can do so it doesn't scale with character power Delve. If hard content is what you want you always got Delve.	Posted by Johny_Snow#4778 on Jul 1, 2019, 9:49:28 AM Quote this Post
" j33bus wrote: I'm probably going to get a bunch of crap for this but Diablo 3 solved this problem by having scaling difficulty and rewarding doing harder content. Diablo 3 punishes you heavily for doing harder content. A level 90 grift is gonna get you half as many legendaries as a T16 rift, and no Death's Breath. Edit: Should throw in that Diablo is also heavily speed focused. A guy at 150% move speed is gonna get an assload more stuff than the guy just chilling with his 25% Paragon speed. Need a new signature, cuz name change. I dunno though. I guess this seems fine. Yeah, this is good. Last edited by LV9999Majin#9565 on Jul 1, 2019, 10:13:51 AM	Posted by LV9999Majin#9565 on Jul 1, 2019, 10:04:14 AM Quote this Post
" Tsokushin wrote: I'm not confusing the issue at all. Speed is only the current metric used because every single encounter from 2.0 onwards only rewarded speed. Take for example if there were essentially immortal enemies that only died after they completed an unavoidable attack upon your character. Suddenly, tanky builds are the focus of such an environment. Or, how about if original reflect were still in the game. There's still some focus on speed, but also a focus on either awareness or on defense. Now, what I'm truly asking for are situations that reward anything other than speed or damage. GGG can decide whether or not to implement them. And, it is in this sense that true player choice comes into action. Go full speed meta, then you either struggle or cannot complete the encounters that require strength of a different sort. Right now, there isn't a single choice. You go full speed or you flounder. Every single ability will clear a pack in one shot regardless. Your main goal will be to skip phases asap in boss fights. Enemies are glorified loot pinatas. Also, how have you glossed over a map mod like this? Player speed cannot be modified above base, but with large item quant/rarity? This is a defining change that will ultimate come down to exactly what you've built your character to do, while also making combat much more focused instead of the 900% movespeed we normally see. This. When speed trumps EVERYTHING, then we a have a problem in the game. A big one. PoE isnt an MMORPG, where you dedicate your character to a single stat (DPS/tankiness/heal), leaving everything else aside. It's an ARPG, where you're tank, DPS and healer at the same time. Yet, it looks like DPS (speed) alone is everything that matters... IGN: MortalKombat Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504 There is no knowledge That is not power	Posted by MortalKombat3#6961 on Jul 1, 2019, 10:39:19 AM Quote this Post
" Johny_Snow wrote: " Also PoE caps the level of content you can do so it doesn't scale with character power Delve. If hard content is what you want you always got Delve. Which is why I've been saying Delve is just a better endgame system than maps. The main problem is that access is still RNG gated by finding sulphite. Delve also scales rewards with difficulty a lot better. " BloodPuddles420 wrote: " j33bus wrote: I'm probably going to get a bunch of crap for this but Diablo 3 solved this problem by having scaling difficulty and rewarding doing harder content. Diablo 3 punishes you heavily for doing harder content. A level 90 grift is gonna get you half as many legendaries as a T16 rift, and no Death's Breath. Edit: Should throw in that Diablo is also heavily speed focused. A guy at 150% move speed is gonna get an assload more stuff than the guy just chilling with his 25% Paragon speed. Maybe, but diablo also tries to increase rewards with difficulty. PoE is pretty explicit that it does not. Loot in a T1 maps and loot from a T16 map is mostly the same, especially in this meta where you don't bother looting equipment. As long as you meet the minimum level to not hit the currency penalty you're better off not doing anything remotely difficult. Last edited by j33bus#3399 on Jul 1, 2019, 10:50:35 AM	Posted by j33bus#3399 on Jul 1, 2019, 10:46:43 AM Quote this Post
Better according to you. It is more bland than maps, consequence from being "endless".	Posted by Johny_Snow#4778 on Jul 1, 2019, 10:57:45 AM Quote this Post
" Johny_Snow wrote: Better according to you. It is more bland than maps, consequence from being "endless". They've actually done a pretty amazing job making Delve diverse. I'm still finding nodes I've never seen before, and the different biomes provide variety as well. Not as diverse as the Atlas, but still enough to keep it from being "bland". Bosses should be about 5x more common than they are. You shouldn't have to search for days to find a boss. Last edited by Shagsbeard#3964 on Jul 1, 2019, 11:12:54 AM	Posted by Shagsbeard#3964 on Jul 1, 2019, 11:11:35 AM Quote this Post
" Johny_Snow wrote: " Also PoE caps the level of content you can do so it doesn't scale with character power Delve. If hard content is what you want you always got Delve. God i'd love to but its hard enough getting to 300 in a league, anything beyond that is in the territory where you have to suffer the trade system for scarabs one at a time forever.	Posted by Draegnarrr#2823 on Jul 1, 2019, 12:00:53 PM Quote this Post
" Johny_Snow wrote: Better according to you. It is more bland than maps, consequence from being "endless". Maps are just as bland and "endless", there's just a cap to the level, and the goal is to only do the same 6 maps over and over. Otherwise the game punishes you with less EXP, or if you want more loot to do the lowest level map that drops the item you want. There is of course a better way to do both delve and maps, which is again the way Diablo 3, torchlight 1 or 2, Last Epoch, and probably many others do it. You go up and you say I'd like an endgame zone please, and then it makes one from a random layout for you. Imagine a combination of maps and delve, where you just click a node and instead of the delve encounter it opens a map, and you run that map. It's endless and delivers varied content. Then you can include the completion rewards from nodes in delve and implicitly add in better rewards for doing harder content.	Posted by j33bus#3399 on Jul 1, 2019, 12:56:02 PM Quote this Post
Everything else aside, I WOULD love to see more variety in maps. In particular the bossfights which are straight up copy-pasted from Acts (Kitava, I'm looking at YOU), without even removing their Act voicelines is embarrassing. Or the ones which are simply just "Beat one bigger monster" The new Graveyard boss is neat. A map boss which acts like a Delve node is actually fairly refreshing. Primordial Blocks is always wild as it's so unique. I'm sure a lot of bosses could could do with that sort of rework. The repetition of map tiles and setups is also painful. At least the maps which combine multipile different map tiles (Lair, for example) manage to create a bit of a different experience. Endgame absolutely needs a rework to maintain engagement, but who knows how much GGG is willing to invest in preventing players from getting bored.	Posted by FramFramson#6091 on Jul 1, 2019, 1:27:24 PM Quote this Post
" Draegnarrr wrote: " Johny_Snow wrote: " Also PoE caps the level of content you can do so it doesn't scale with character power Delve. If hard content is what you want you always got Delve. God i'd love to but its hard enough getting to 300 in a league, anything beyond that is in the territory where you have to suffer the trade system for scarabs one at a time forever. some dude was the first to reach depth 750 in hardcore chat yesterday. (announced by official ggg text above chat) that's hella deep. Last edited by teksuoPOE#2987 on Jul 1, 2019, 1:34:26 PM	Posted by teksuoPOE#2987 on Jul 1, 2019, 1:33:33 PM Quote this Post