EXP LOSS POLL

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Wladicorist1 wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

So you think Uber Elder healing when you die would be less punishing? It took me 24 portals (3 failed sets) to kill uber elder on my one and only attempt. I would have failed that 4th time too if he healed after every death. I need all my portals to kill some things. That’s what happens when you don’t have the best gear and can one shot bosses. You want to rage quit because you lost experience. I would rage quit if I couldn’t continue a fight. Taking my portals would suck. Healing the boss would suck. You aren’t giving any acceptable replacement penalties.

if you arent good enough to kill the boss you shouldnt even try facing him by trying it 24 times ...
you die 1 time or twice
you let go off of it and try again later after you get better gear :)

Isn’t that the same logic as: If you can’t live through certain random map mods and monster combinations, you should just not do maps until you get better gear. No reason to complain about the death penalty if you’re strong enough to kill everything without dying.

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mark1030 wrote:

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Wladicorist1 wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

So you think Uber Elder healing when you die would be less punishing? It took me 24 portals (3 failed sets) to kill uber elder on my one and only attempt. I would have failed that 4th time too if he healed after every death. I need all my portals to kill some things. That’s what happens when you don’t have the best gear and can one shot bosses. You want to rage quit because you lost experience. I would rage quit if I couldn’t continue a fight. Taking my portals would suck. Healing the boss would suck. You aren’t giving any acceptable replacement penalties.

if you arent good enough to kill the boss you shouldnt even try facing him by trying it 24 times ...
you die 1 time or twice
you let go off of it and try again later after you get better gear :)

Isn’t that the same logic as: If you can’t live through certain random map mods and monster combinations, you should just not do maps until you get better gear. No reason to complain about the death penalty if you’re strong enough to kill everything without dying.

nope its not the same
you literally compared the endgame boss to normal maps lol
a boss is a damn "BOSS"
not a creep yes you should do the content fit to your character and build but with the endgame we have now its almost impossible
crafting is crap and to randomized also every worthy item is locked behind some crap that no one needs
so you cant go in and grind a random map for 12 hours until you get something nice by "random" like rng should be
nope you get lots of uniques that arent even worth picking up and the rares you can pick up are so many that you dont even want to waste time to identify them
also if i dont get anything worthy after playing my char like 400 hours has bad mechanics that other games do better
all its good about the game is the build variaty
but back to topic the thing is punishing people on top of all the things i said
is like they almost want people to leave
i've beaten all the endgame and i did uelder n shaper first try after watching and studying the mechanics of this fight enough
but the game literally shows me the big middlefinger and says you all have to buy the gear you in which i come to my next point
trading in this game sucks

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Wladicorist1 wrote:

nope its not the same
you literally compared the endgame boss to normal maps lol
a boss is a damn "BOSS"

Irrelevant, bosses are already balanced around the current mechanics, as maps are.

Try again.

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Wladicorist1 wrote:

also if i dont get anything worthy after playing my char like 400 hours has bad mechanics that other games do better

Have you ever asked yourself if you were not doing something wrong ?
Has that ever happened ?

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

Fruz, you really shouldn't try to shut down suggestions because the game is currently balanced a certain way.
1) If a mechanic is bad, then it should be changed, point, then, and only then, does balance come into play, with it needing to be updated.

I'm merely showing flaws in people's "argumentation" (for a lot of cases, speaking of argumentation is very very kind already).
And often, it's very easy honestly, as the flaws are obvious.

So ... you say that it's bad, => it is bad ?

Oh ... sorry .... I had no idea that you knew the absolute truth about that, much better than other players that have more experience than you and much better than GGG too ...


/s

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

My point was that you are looking at game design in the wrong order. It shouldn't be balance dictating mechanics, but rather mechanics dictating balance, which is why I am kind of frustrated of seeing you push current balance as a reason to not rework mechanics.

If you're realistic, you don't just chance mechanics on a whim if it does not fit the balance a minimum, because changing a significant chunk of balance is unrealistic, it's not something that GGG will do, so ...


I legitimately have yet to see one actually good suggestion that would still soft cap bad build and be different from the current penalty, seriously.
Many suggestions that would give an incentive to players to not play the game anymore for a while or similar nonsensical stuff .... it's quite terrible really.


PS : if you don't like perceiving thing as aggressive, try not to throw silly absolute truth as "this mechanic is bad" (which is clearly what you implied, even if it was not 100% explicit), then you won't be called out on it.

There should be consequence to mistakes regardless of the game mode.

I find EXP loss more than reasonable and it's pretty standard as an alternate to perma death. Plenty of other games have EXP loss on death and made it just as hard to get back. It's a shame it's not an issue in Path until lvl 90+

The alternatives would be 1 chance runs, ie 1 portal maps which don't agree with inventory space or total resets + a key like Labs. Though in a game with trading I find both those options fairly trivial. Still at least it's a consequence unlike some newer games where you essentially can't lose.

I started both PoE and WF in 2013 and PoE remains the better functioning game these days in part because there are consequences to dying, a need to pay attention at points and a reason to min/max your builds.

My solution is better build balance so that we’re not trapped in this binary status quo where meta builds-of-the-league never die and anything else does all the time. GGG needs to stop handing us obvious “I win” build choices, and then difficulty can be adjusted much more easily across the board.

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Fruz wrote:

PS : if you don't like perceiving thing as aggressive, try not to throw silly absolute truth as "this mechanic is bad" (which is clearly what you implied, even if it was not 100% explicit), then you won't be called out on it.

but the death penalty mechanic is bad.
it forces you to play a certain way , build a character with massive aoe or stay at range. Skip bosses - as you are better off semi clearing maps and opening a new one.

A penalty should not force a player to abandon half the game. It is also disproportionate compared to the pace at which a player clears the game.
If you are on a super fast clear build, the penalty feels bad but you are clearing maps in 1-2 mins and will gain it back in 30 mins.

if you are like most casuals , you do not play this quickly. the penalty can easily set you back days of progress as you only have an hour or so to play and you prefer to clear the map and boss as a normal sane person would.

The penalty is outdated , and should be addressed. I am not saying remove it , but add a mechanic to regain the loss experience faster from one random death here or there , or add a cap to the amount of total lost experience per level such that everyone can progress eventually.