Spectre chest insanity.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

...aside from the more life/es/defenses/resistances/stats/etc? i mean, aside from having the primary 'unique' mod with no downsides whatsoever... yeah, aside from everything, it's fine, i guess.

You're clearly avoiding the 15% minion damage and 30% of phys added as chaos by the vis mortis, Sure defensive stats Can be gained but its at a cost and not only that the +1 totem on shield is significantly easier to get, Easier to craft with and takes the user above the average max of 4, The chest Armour mod does not do this.

This is a trade-off not a literal and easy to obtain upgrade.

even you do not believe this.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

hence, what i said. see the highlighted word.
and the boots are relevant to this for what should be super obvious reasons.

Well feel free to comment on how the boots pertain to this conversation at all, Again the boots do not let you exceed the average count of spectres, This topic is about the chest Armour and its general rarity.

1. the boot mod came from delve, same as the chest
2. previous to delve, the only boot mod was ullr, which has MASSIVE drawbacks
3. it's pretty obvious that ggg intended the mod to be far more common on the boots (fossil) vs chest
4. despite the fact that massive power creep was obtained this way, this thread still exists, proving that you (collective) will not be content without power creep in every possible slot.

even you can't pretend that rare boots with this mod aren't more powerful than ullr. the movement speed, alone...

"

robmafia wrote:

1. the boot mod came from delve, same as the chest
2. previous to delve, the only boot mod was ullr, which has MASSIVE drawbacks
3. it's pretty obvious that ggg intended the mod to be far more common on the boots (fossil) vs chest
4. despite the fact that massive power creep was obtained this way, this thread still exists, proving that you (collective) will not be content without power creep in every possible slot.

even you can't pretend that rare boots with this mod aren't more powerful than ullr. the movement speed, alone...

If you've read the majority of my posts, I highlight that a TEAM of people could work for an entire league and never find a base with this mod, My argument is for only increasing the availability enough that it is possible through this massive dedication be it solo or with a group to actually get a base, Not necessarily be able to farm until i get the exact base i want.

Now is this unreasonable? I really don't think so.

"

robmafia wrote:

and yet, you didn't/won't cite a single instance of any. gee, i wonder why?

lolz @ strawman. i generally quoted these things numerously.
uberlolz @ ad-hom - zero insults were in that post.

still waiting for you to support your accusation of misquoting, btw. you... cited absolutely nothing to support that, either.


which means nothing. so was snapshotting. so is cyclone. being in the game doesn't mean it's balanced. further, the scarcity is perhaps the only thing coming close to reining this in.

which means nothing on standard. also, your basis of comparison isn't power, or affixes, or etc - it's based on your effort to drop one. which is laughable as a measure of GAME balance. especially in a game based on economics.

aaaaaaaaand i'm going to stop you there. try again.

which is a joke and thoroughly disputed by others here. remember golemancers? they were everywhere for 2 leagues.

false, as evident by this thread.

also, OP affixes should be removed, anyway - making this a moot point. pick your poison.

bs, you literally proposed adding a bench mod.

fallacy: jump to conclusions
also: i have no burden to show you gameplay. wtf?
also: 2 =/= 4 (which was the argument). or 5, which you also claimed.

blatant contradiction: teal objectively refutes pink.

For misquotations: just a few posts ago you claimed that I wanted snapshotting back. For ad-hominem, you have called me a joke. On the quoted post you called my argument bs. For strawman, you claim that anything you disagree with is imbalanced, without any arguments or proof or numbers of any sort. You claim cyclone is imbalanced, but you have not once, for instance, pulled up number of % players playing it, the aoe coverage, leech potential or dps or any other aspect of it. Why should we take a poor debater such as you on your word? Mayhaps cyclone is perfectly balanced, you have provided 0 proof for the contrary.

For imbalance, how is it going to worsen imbalance if the mod is already in-game? On an easily-accessible chest piece too? I am just proposing that the defensive alternative to the chest piece with the mod be made more sanely available.

How are golemancers spectre/zombie summoners? SRS were meta or at least fairly popular too for a league or so long ago too, what does that have to do with spectres?

I am not proposing to add a new mod to the game. I am proposing to tweak the availability of an existing mod. If that means adding it to the crafting bench, that still does not make it a new mod.

Youtube/twitch is fairly filled with players playing with 4-5 spectres. I play with 4 spectres. I have seen many players play with 4 spectres. The burden to prove that all that is anecdotical and, as you claim, clearing T15 naked with 2 spectres is the norm, is on you, since you are going against the common consensus and the status quo. And I am not asking you to do that, just to provide an example of it happening at all, which you refuse, since we both know that it is not a thing that happens.

And how is a chest sacrificing some offensive potential for a gain in defences imbalanced/overpowered? It is a clear tradeoff. Worse offense, more defence. Also, merely more defensive potential, since Vis Mortis is guaranteed to roll decent ES that is hard for delve chests to surpass, just look at all the very few chests available in trade.

if it comes with a drawback then we can agree to put this mod on crafting bench.
It should exclude flat life or es mod to be crafted so there is an actual drawback to craft a more multiplier in the form of a +1 specter.

We have to give credit to robmafia for fightning tooth and nail against power creep. That is something atleast i can respect.

"

kompaniet wrote:

We have to give credit to robmafia for fightning tooth and nail against power creep. That is something atleast i can respect.

I hate the power creep as it has literally killed off some of my builds that i used to run because DPS is more important for some content now..

But going from vis mortis to the rare body generally is going to lower dps of your spectres in exchange for potential higher defenses except in some rare cases.

anywho if what rob is really fighting against is said powercreep i'd be right behind him on the front lines if he felt like making a thread for it because it hurts everyone a great deal but most importantly for me build diversity.

I think making this body armour mod slightly less rare is one of the least important points to attack on power creep.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

1. the boot mod came from delve, same as the chest
2. previous to delve, the only boot mod was ullr, which has MASSIVE drawbacks
3. it's pretty obvious that ggg intended the mod to be far more common on the boots (fossil) vs chest
4. despite the fact that massive power creep was obtained this way, this thread still exists, proving that you (collective) will not be content without power creep in every possible slot.

even you can't pretend that rare boots with this mod aren't more powerful than ullr. the movement speed, alone...

If you've read the majority of my posts, I highlight that a TEAM of people could work for an entire league and never find a base with this mod, My argument is for only increasing the availability enough that it is possible through this massive dedication be it solo or with a group to actually get a base, Not necessarily be able to farm until i get the exact base i want.

Now is this unreasonable? I really don't think so.

for the umpteenth time, the game isn't balanced around ssf.

source: chris.

the game is balanced around trading.

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

For misquotations: just a few posts ago you claimed that I wanted snapshotting back.

ULTIMATE IRONY! prove it. cite it. you can't. I NEVER SAID THAT!

1. the above wouldn't even be a misquote - THERE'S NO QUOTE! you don't even meet the pre-req!
2. i said you complained about snapshotting being fixed and wanted snapshotting (which is what the complaint implies, no?). you said this on pages 2-3. i can quote it, if you'd like...
3. blatant hypocrisy. not only did i NOT do what you accused me of, but you did it... in your own accusation, no less.

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

For ad-hominem, you have called me a joke.

false. this is a lie.

i said "which is a joke and thoroughly disputed by others here." - a CLEARLY refers to the (false) statement you made.

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

On the quoted post you called my argument bs.

umm... yeah. that's not ad-hom. that's not even close to ad-hom. you =/= argument.

also, i explained WHY.

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

For strawman, you claim that anything you disagree with is imbalanced

aaaand you did it again.

irony - the above quote IS strawman. (also, a "misquotation," as per your wonky definition above) i never once said that, nor did i ever argue such.

the OP, imbalanced affixes/drop rates/etc that you want? yeah, they're imbalanced. as evident by ~14 pages of explanations, examples, demonstrations, definitions, practice, philosophy, and objectivity.

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

without any arguments

you keep insisting this. i even recapped and QUOTED some (again). you... pretend they don't exist and evade them. now with wild accusations...

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

or proof or numbers of any sort.

WAT

1. i listed numerous.
2. you haven't provided ONE citation of any of your accusations toward me. not ONE. in all these pages. show me ANY of these. if i truly said the things you claimed, you can quote them in a post.

there won't be one.

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

You claim cyclone is imbalanced, but you have not once, for instance, pulled up number of % players playing it, the aoe coverage, leech potential or dps or any other aspect of it. Why should we take a poor debater such as you on your word? Mayhaps cyclone is perfectly balanced, you have provided 0 proof for the contrary.

...and reductio ad absurdum enters the topic.

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

I am not proposing to add a new mod to the game. I am proposing to tweak the availability of an existing mod. If that means adding it to the crafting bench, that still does not make it a new mod.

omg, it LITERALLY does. it would LITERALLY be a new affix name.

ie: "chosen" vs "shaper's"

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

Youtube/twitch is fairly filled with players playing with 4-5 spectres. I play with 4 spectres. I have seen many players play with 4 spectres.

you literally argued that "no one" plays with 4.

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

The burden to prove that all that is anecdotical and, as you claim, clearing T15 naked with 2 spectres is the norm, is on you,

...sure, IF i actually said that.

hint: I NEVER SAID THAT. how many times have you strawmanned/misquoted (since your definition of misquoting is actually just strawman, and also involves zero quotes *facepalm* ) me in this post, alone?

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

since you are going against the common consensus and the status quo.

lolz! this, coming from the one who made a thread complaining about the status quo?

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

And I am not asking you to do that,

...you already did. you even offered me some dumb standard orbs to do so.

my god, man. this is hitting parody-like levels of contradiction.

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

And how is a chest sacrificing some offensive potential for a gain in defences imbalanced/overpowered? It is a clear tradeoff.

reductio ad absurdum. AGAIN.

also, this has been explained to you about 40 times in this thread, from at least 5 different people.

also, it's CLEARLY stronger... or you'd just be happy with vis mortis and this thread would not exist.

"

Shieldbreaker wrote:

Worse offense, more defence.

negligible offense provided by unique. rares can provide insurmountably more life/defense/stats/res. WHICH YOU KNOW.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

"

kompaniet wrote:

We have to give credit to robmafia for fightning tooth and nail against power creep. That is something atleast i can respect.

I hate the power creep as it has literally killed off some of my builds that i used to run because DPS is more important for some content now..

But going from vis mortis to the rare body generally is going to lower dps of your spectres in exchange for potential higher defenses except in some rare cases.

anywho if what rob is really fighting against is said powercreep i'd be right behind him on the front lines if he felt like making a thread for it because it hurts everyone a great deal but most importantly for me build diversity.

I think making this body armour mod slightly less rare is one of the least important points to attack on power creep.

what in the actual...?

not only did i make a thread for it, but i linked it IN THIS VERY THREAD.

"

robmafia wrote:

what in the actual...?

not only did i make a thread for it, but i linked it IN THIS VERY THREAD.

You keep providing 0 proof for any of your claims and asking for proof from me. I am done trying to argue with you when you can't even be civil, or provide any proof, any numbers, anything besides accusations.

I hope your next forum ban is permanent.