Spectre chest insanity.

...yeah, it's like that was acknowledged or something.

REPEATEDLY.

FACT: the game is balanced around trade.

FACT: you're adding imposed restrictions (self found).

FACT: your entire premise is predicated on this elective restriction - that the game is explicitly NOT balanced around.

FACT: hundreds of these are on poe.trade. anyone can just make a mouse click and ctrl+v and get one. your entire argument implies that many uniques (esp top tier, ie: shav's, kaom's, inpulsa, etc) should drop way more - as people aren't likely to have one drop in months, either. and those wanting a specific unique for a build and have a self-imposed no-trade restriction...

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Ok.......? I don't play or care about SSF nor did it have anything to do with what i was saying.

"

robmafia wrote:

...it had literally EVERYTHING to do with what you were saying. your complaint was that you didn't get it to DROP. hence, ssf. hence, game balanced around trade. hence, you can trade for one.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

If i had meant SSF i would have put SSF/Solo Self Found.

"

robmafia wrote:

...ok, and?

the game's still balanced around trade and you can still trade for one. you can call it ssf or g(roup)sf or p(arty)sf or whatever, it's the same difference and still retorted by previous posts and the fact that game is balanced around trading.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

If i had meant SSF i would have said SSF/Solo Self found, How is this complicated?
If you've read the majority of my posts, I highlight that a TEAM of people could work for an entire league and never find a base with this mod

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I don't understand why i have to quote myself repeatedly to get across a point i made near the beginning of this thread.

"

robmafia wrote:

...yeah, it's like that was acknowledged or something.

REPEATEDLY.

FACT: the game is balanced around trade.

FACT: you're adding imposed restrictions (self found).

FACT: your entire premise is predicated on this elective restriction - that the game is explicitly NOT balanced around.

FACT: hundreds of these are on poe.trade. anyone can just make a mouse click and ctrl+v and get one. your entire argument implies that many uniques (esp top tier, ie: shav's, kaom's, inpulsa, etc) should drop way more - as people aren't likely to have one drop in months, either. and those wanting a specific unique for a build and have a self-imposed no-trade restriction...

At no point was i talking about Solo-Self-Found/SSF If i were i would have used the proper terms, Please stop bringing this up page after page.

I never said any of those (what you consider) top tier uniques should drop way more, please stop making things up.

I am only wishing for a rare defensive option for spectres that in no way increases my damage directly outside of an armour with STR and a niche build for str be slightly more common in delve, And actually not SPECIFICALLY this armour but the Minion node in delve itself.

I could much more likely farm a Headhunter in less time and less headache than i could Obtain and Craft one of these rare spectre armours for much less of a benefit to my build in any regard.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

At no point was i talking about Solo-Self-Found/SSF If i were i would have used the proper terms,

wtf? i just quoted 4 times... of many.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

There are plenty of people who go for objectives solo

My argument is for only increasing the availability enough that it is possible through this massive dedication be it solo or with a group to actually get a base, Not necessarily be able to farm until i get the exact base i want.

You can farm for an entire league and never get

so that a summoner could have 4 spectres without the vis mortis without jumping through hoops that honestly you could do for an ENTIRE LEAGUE and never stand a chance at actually finding this item.

also, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE TALKING SOLO OR GROUP, SELF-FOUND WAS THE POINT.

...it's as if i EXPLICITLY went over all this, or something. oh, wait. i did. in NUMEROUS posts, including my previous post. that you quoted. but, hilariously enough, are not ACTUALLY responding to.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Please stop bringing this up page after page.

...it's YOUR premise.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I never said any of those (what you consider) top tier uniques should drop way more, please stop making things up.

...and i literally never said you did. please actually read the post you're (not actually) responding to.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I am only wishing for a rare defensive option for spectres that in no way increases my damage directly outside of an armour with STR and a niche build for str be slightly more common in delve, And actually not SPECIFICALLY this armour but the Minion node in delve itself.

omg, now you're pretending that +1 spectre doesn't increase damage?! good god, man.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

At no point was i talking about Solo-Self-Found/SSF If i were i would have used the proper terms, Please stop bringing this up page after page.

"

robmafia wrote:

...it's YOUR premise.

I guess i'll say this again, Not once in this thread was i referring to Solo-Self-Found outside of correcting you when you say that i was.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I never said any of those (what you consider) top tier uniques should drop way more, please stop making things up.

"

robmafia wrote:

...and i literally never said you did. please actually read the post you're (not actually) responding to.

"

robmafia wrote:

your entire argument implies that many uniques (esp top tier, ie: shav's, kaom's, inpulsa, etc) should drop way more

^ not my words there.

"

robmafia wrote:

omg, now you're pretending that +1 spectre doesn't increase damage?! good god, man.

If i already have 4 spectres on a vis mortis and i switch to this rare body armour for defensive purposes, and again still have 4 spectres where is this additional damage you are speaking of outside of a niche baron build?

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I guess i'll say this again, Not once in this thread was i referring to Solo-Self-Found outside of correcting you when you say that i was.

wtf? AGAIN, IT'S YOUR ARGUMENT.

i even quoted you saying it 4 times... and why do you keep trying to play semantics? it doesn't matter if you said "ssf" or merely repeatedly described ssf. THE POINT WAS SELF-FOUND. IE: YOUR SELF-IMPOSED RESTRICTION ON TRADING. IE: HOW THE GAME IS EXPLICITLY NOT BALANCED. IE: HOW THE GAME IS EXPLICITLY NEVER GOING TO BE BALANCED.

your ENTIRE argument was based on YOU being unable to "find" or "farm" one - as if you can't just trade for one, easily. as if hundreds aren't on poe.trade.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

^ not my words there.

1. AGAIN, i literally never claimed you said it.
2. you quoted the word "IMPLIES" twice. do you seriously not know what it means?

it's as if i applied your exact argument and conditions to build-enabling unique chestpieces, or something. oh... wait, that's EXACTLY what i did. and AGAIN, i never accused you of saying it. I SAID IT. that was... THE POINT.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

If i already have 4 spectres on a vis mortis and i switch to this rare body armour for defensive purposes, and again still have 4 spectres where is this additional damage you are speaking of outside of a niche baron build?

1. you JUST claimed it doesn't increase your damage (it does)
2. you were supposed to be arguing it's not power creep/OP (it is)

"

robmafia wrote:

...yeah, it's like that was acknowledged or something.

REPEATEDLY.

FACT: the game is balanced around trade.

FACT: you're adding imposed restrictions (self found).

FACT: your entire premise is predicated on this elective restriction - that the game is explicitly NOT balanced around.

FACT: hundreds of these are on poe.trade. anyone can just make a mouse click and ctrl+v and get one. your entire argument implies that many uniques (esp top tier, ie: shav's, kaom's, inpulsa, etc) should drop way more - as people aren't likely to have one drop in months, either. and those wanting a specific unique for a build and have a self-imposed no-trade restriction...

le sigh.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I guess i'll say this again, Not once in this thread was i referring to Solo-Self-Found outside of correcting you when you say that i was.

"

robmafia wrote:

it doesn't matter if you said "ssf" or merely repeatedly described ssf. THE POINT WAS SELF-FOUND. IE: YOUR SELF-IMPOSED RESTRICTION ON TRADING. IE: HOW THE GAME IS EXPLICITLY NOT BALANCED. IE: HOW THE GAME IS EXPLICITLY NEVER GOING TO BE BALANCED.

It actually does matter, I did not reference SSF, I did not say at any point i was unwilling to buy some of these bases, I said quite clearly that i wished for it to be slightly more common so that a Team of people or even a Solo player could stand a realistic chance of finding one if they were to put forth a significant effort to do so.

"

robmafia wrote:

your ENTIRE argument was based on YOU being unable to "find" or "farm" one - as if you can't just trade for one, easily. as if hundreds aren't on poe.trade.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

If you've read the majority of my posts, I highlight that a TEAM of people could work for an entire league and never find a base with this mod.

What does ^that say?

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

If i already have 4 spectres on a vis mortis and i switch to this rare body armour for defensive purposes, and again still have 4 spectres where is this additional damage you are speaking of outside of a niche baron build?

This is a question^ not a statement, If you don't care to answer it that is up to you i guess.

"

robmafia wrote:

your entire argument implies that many uniques (esp top tier, ie: shav's, kaom's, inpulsa, etc) should drop way more

^

"

robmafia wrote:

...and i literally never said you did. please actually read the post you're (not actually) responding to.

That has never been a part of my argument, If i had referenced another unique which i have it was that said unique is more powerful and significantly easier to obtain than said spectre body armour mod.

omg.

so you're backpedaling away from the self-found aspect of your argument? that leaves... no argument, at all. you now have nothing. no point, at all... as there are literally HUNDREDS of these chestpieces available for trade. just trade for one, already.

as for uniques - for the third and final time: i LITERALLY NEVER claimed you said that. i never said you argued that. i used your +1 spectre rare argument and applied it to build-enabling uniques. BECAUSE LOGIC. BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME THING. it was your SAME premise.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

If you've read the majority of my posts, I highlight that a TEAM of people could work for an entire league and never find a base with this mod.

What does ^that say?

it said "FIND." FIND was STILL the keyword. as per SELF-FOUND. ie: self-imposed trade restriction. ie: THE ENTIRE ARGUMENT BETWEEN US.

also, i ALREADY QUOTED THAT. also, i ALREADY mentioned group self-found. and party self-found. AGAIN, the key component was... you focusing entirely on "found."

you JUST claimed to not be resorting to semantics, btw.

"

I did not say at any point i was unwilling to buy some of these bases

this refutes your entire stated position, thus far. your ENTIRE argument was based on rarity and not FINDING (dropping) one. as per the numerous quotes of yours. that i highlighted in pink.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

It actually does matter, I did not reference SSF, I did not say at any point i was unwilling to buy some of these bases, I said quite clearly that i wished for it to be slightly more common so that a Team of people or even a Solo player could stand a realistic chance of finding one if they were to put forth a significant effort to do so.

denial. followed by contradiction and admission in the same paragraph.

also, i already quoted you referencing it 4 times. and they were just the 4 most recent up to that point. ffs.


poe 2019 - argue for ~8 pages that it should be more common based on solo/group players not being able to find one... then denies/backpedals, leaving no argument, at all. while... still arguing and denying direct quotes.

"

robmafia wrote:

so you're backpedaling away from the self-found aspect of your argument? that leaves... no argument, at all. you now have nothing. no point, at all... as there are literally HUNDREDS of these chestpieces available for trade. just trade for one, already.

To backpedal away from it, It would require Solo-Self-Found was ever a part of my argument, It has not and shall not ever no matter how many times you say it be a part of or have been a part of my argument.

"

robmafia wrote:

as for uniques - for the third and final time: i LITERALLY NEVER claimed you said that. i never said you argued that. i used your +1 spectre rare argument and applied it to build-enabling uniques. BECAUSE LOGIC. BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME THING. it was your SAME premise.

"

robmafia wrote:

your entire argument implies that many uniques (esp top tier, ie: shav's, kaom's, inpulsa, etc) should drop way more

^This has nothing to do with what I'm saying, I really am failing to see where you got this from, Perhaps you have confused my post with someone else's.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

If you've read the majority of my posts, I highlight that a TEAM of people could work for an entire league and never find a base with this mod.

"

robmafia wrote:

it said "FIND." FIND was STILL the keyword. as per SELF-FOUND. ie: self-imposed trade restriction. ie: THE ENTIRE ARGUMENT BETWEEN US.

also, i ALREADY QUOTED THAT. also, i ALREADY mentioned group self-found. and party self-found. AGAIN, the key component was... you focusing entirely on "found."

never said solo-self-found, solo was required in my post as due to the nature of this game grouping is not always possible, I primarily run with a group of people who help each other achieve goals.

"

robmafia wrote:

your ENTIRE argument was based on rarity and not FINDING (dropping) one. as per the numerous quotes of yours. that i highlighted in pink.

Well now we're actually getting somewhere here, Correct I'm only here to ask GGG to slightly reduce the rarity, not make it so common that the vis mortis loses all value, If you have seen those hundreds of bases you keep mentioning how many of them are actual significant upgrades?

Well i just ran a quick search, The vis mortis has a top end of 397 energy shield + more through several methods to increase quality available in the game presently.

The highest ES base available right now only has 240ES, In order to even get close to surpassing the vis mortis you are required to anull and heavily craft on these items to even come close if you can without losing the mod in the first place through annuls.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

If i already have 4 spectres on a vis mortis and i switch to this rare body armour for defensive purposes, and again still have 4 spectres where is this additional damage you are speaking of outside of a niche baron build?

Care to answer this? It's not a very complicated question.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Care to answer this? It's not a very complicated question.

oh. you were serious. you're seriously asking me to answer your moved goalpost? it's... a moved goalpost. and a moved goalpost as a result of your repeated backpedaling from your own claims.

you tried to argue it's not more powerful than vis by making it about offense, as if defense/stats/etc isn't power.

then you backpedaled from vis mortis, entirely, and asked how +1 spectres provides increased damage.

then you tried to cherrypick from the above in bizarre combinations.


kind of like how you argued for ~8 pages about "find" and "found," while magically backpedaling to trade. as if there weren't hundreds of non-unique +1 spectre chestpieces available for trade, this entire time.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Well now we're actually getting somewhere here,

...i said the same thing for this entire argument. you clearly realized your argument was btfo and tried to backpedal from it.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

If i already have 4 spectres on a vis mortis and i switch to this rare body armour for defensive purposes, and again still have 4 spectres where is this additional damage you are speaking of outside of a niche baron build?

Care to answer this? It's not a very complicated question.

^ the actual post

"

robmafia wrote:

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Care to answer this? It's not a very complicated question.

^your edit of the actual post

"

robmafia wrote:

oh. you were serious. you're seriously asking me to answer your moved goalpost? it's... a moved goalpost. and a moved goalpost as a result of your repeated backpedaling from your own claims.

you tried to argue it's not more powerful than vis by making it about offense, as if defense/stats/etc isn't power.

then you backpedaled from vis mortis, entirely, and asked how +1 spectres provides increased damage.

then you tried to cherrypick from the above in bizarre combinations.

^your reply.

So I'll ask again, How does it add damage when i have 4 spectres with the vis mortis and then upon switching to the rare body armour still only have 4 spectres while also losing the 15% minion damage of the vis mortis.