Chris Wilson: "Many spells are too weak for players to want to use"

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Mlvado wrote:

why the fuck people dont understand that a "fix to melee" can come on the patch notes, calm your butts and wait until you have the entire thing before babyraging with only 0,1% of whats coming on match 08, jesus

btw, this can very likelly be a bait for you guys, they explicity said many times "SPELL THESE, SPELL THAT SPELL SPELL", they never said they wont make any changes to melee, we can have today an annoucement saying the same thing about melee "we are rebalancing all melee skills and releasing these 4 new attack skills" they did not close this door at any point.

Lol, but they said they are focusing on spells so

https://youtu.be/hwPAcKgJjJU?t=423

"A hot topic on the path of exile balance has been... self cast spells"

they teasing people here, ziggyD makes an obvious pause there, he forces to literally not talk about attacks in his entire video, its not natural, they are not talking purposely on this topic

"

Relationship wrote:

I like the debate about spell and melee build gear


let's be real honest

Tabula+10c of gear for spell = clearing red maps quickly


Tabula+10c of gear for melee= more likely struggling to clear yellow tier maps



That's not balance.


You want to make it fair, make spells require the same amount of investment as melee.

Example:

So if you need to find a 300+ DPS weapon to have good melee damage then I think balance is needing to have a 300+ Spell damage weapon to do damage.

This would require changes but that would be equality.

show me 1 build with gear worth 10c + tabula that has accepable level of dps and survieability to safely clear red maps,that isnt arc,winter orb,cold snap+vortey,brand,trap or totem based.

to set a baseline of what is a accepable

-over 5k life/ 6.5k es or 4.2k life + mom + reasonable option recover the lost mana (like crafted dmg taken gained as mana on atleast 2 of the 3 possible ring/amu slots or good manaregen that isnt eaten up by your spellusage)
-the ability to recover high enough regen/es recharge leech
-2nd layer of defences (endurance charges,eva,armor or dmg taken as x)
-caped resitences (doesnt mean chaso resitences)
-30% movementspeed on boots
-250k mapboss not shaper dps

you get the tabula for "free",a budget of 10c no other items with more than 1 good resi + 1good es/life mod + a craftable mod that doesnt cost more than 4c (good doesnt mean put 2 tier 1mods on all items!)

-if you are using mom you cant reserve more than 50% of your mana

-similar items have to be listed for trade in any league (they dont have to be the exact same fire could be cold resi instead and the rolls could be better but still in the same tier)

you will never be able to reach these numbers and they are on the very low end of what i would ever even consider running alced red tier maps with.

feel free to prove me wrong.

its your claim "10c + tabula are enough for spells (not top tier spells! even those would have a hard time with these stats) to clear endgame content" , so its on you to proof it.

edit: elemental overload is fine,but ee isnt because it would mess up your casting. buffs over 4.0secs are fine i.e. frost bomb ,arcane surge linked or used with inc duration is fine as well

"

ciel289 wrote:

"

Relationship wrote:

I like the debate about spell and melee build gear


let's be real honest

Tabula+10c of gear for spell = clearing red maps quickly


Tabula+10c of gear for melee= more likely struggling to clear yellow tier maps



That's not balance.


You want to make it fair, make spells require the same amount of investment as melee.

Example:

So if you need to find a 300+ DPS weapon to have good melee damage then I think balance is needing to have a 300+ Spell damage weapon to do damage.

This would require changes but that would be equality.

show me 1 build with gear worth 10c + tabula that has accepable level of dps and survieability to safely clear red maps,that isnt arc,winter orb,cold snap+vortey,brand,trap or totem based.

to set a baseline of what is a accepable

-over 5k life/ 6.5k es or 4.2k life + mom + reasonable option recover the lost mana (like crafted dmg taken gained as mana on atleast 2 of the 3 possible ring/amu slots or good manaregen that isnt eaten up by your spellusage)
-the ability to recover high enough regen/es recharge leech
-2nd layer of defences (endurance charges,eva,armor or dmg taken as x)
-caped resitences (doesnt mean chaso resitences)
-30% movementspeed on boots
-250k mapboss not shaper dps

you get the tabula for "free",a budget of 10c no other items with more than 1 good resi + 1good es/life mod + a craftable mod that doesnt cost more than 4c (good doesnt mean put 2 tier 1mods on all items!)

-if you are using mom you cant reserve more than 50% of your mana

-similar items have to be listed for trade in any league (they dont have to be the exact same fire could be cold resi instead and the rolls could be better but still in the same tier)

you will never be able to reach these numbers and they are on the very low end of what i would ever even consider running alced red tier maps with.

feel free to prove me wrong.

its your claim "10c + tabula are enough for spells (not top tier spells! even those would have a hard time with these stats) to clear endgame content" , so its on you to proof it.

so you ask him to make a budget build then basically say "no using budget skills"

"

k1rage wrote:

"

ciel289 wrote:

"

Relationship wrote:

I like the debate about spell and melee build gear


let's be real honest

Tabula+10c of gear for spell = clearing red maps quickly


Tabula+10c of gear for melee= more likely struggling to clear yellow tier maps



That's not balance.


You want to make it fair, make spells require the same amount of investment as melee.

Example:

So if you need to find a 300+ DPS weapon to have good melee damage then I think balance is needing to have a 300+ Spell damage weapon to do damage.

This would require changes but that would be equality.

show me 1 build with gear worth 10c + tabula that has accepable level of dps and survieability to safely clear red maps,that isnt arc,winter orb,cold snap+vortey,brand,trap or totem based.

to set a baseline of what is a accepable

-over 5k life/ 6.5k es or 4.2k life + mom + reasonable option recover the lost mana (like crafted dmg taken gained as mana on atleast 2 of the 3 possible ring/amu slots or good manaregen that isnt eaten up by your spellusage)
-the ability to recover high enough regen/es recharge leech
-2nd layer of defences (endurance charges,eva,armor or dmg taken as x)
-caped resitences (doesnt mean chaso resitences)
-30% movementspeed on boots
-250k mapboss not shaper dps

you get the tabula for "free",a budget of 10c no other items with more than 1 good resi + 1good es/life mod + a craftable mod that doesnt cost more than 4c (good doesnt mean put 2 tier 1mods on all items!)

-if you are using mom you cant reserve more than 50% of your mana

-similar items have to be listed for trade in any league (they dont have to be the exact same fire could be cold resi instead and the rolls could be better but still in the same tier)

you will never be able to reach these numbers and they are on the very low end of what i would ever even consider running alced red tier maps with.

feel free to prove me wrong.

its your claim "10c + tabula are enough for spells (not top tier spells! even those would have a hard time with these stats) to clear endgame content" , so its on you to proof it.

so you ask him to make a budget build then basically say "no using budget skills"

i´m telling him to use skillsetups that are beeing adressed in the announcement for next league,because thats what they complain about.

melee obviously fixing as well no doubt about that. ggg is trying to fix 1 thing that needs attention so i´m happy about the announcment. they are adressing 1 thing every patch,it just isnt melee in 3.6.

i read something about melee beeing adressed in 3.7,but atm i´m not sure if it was a official ggg post since i cant find it.

"

Mlvado wrote:

https://youtu.be/hwPAcKgJjJU?t=423

"A hot topic on the path of exile balance has been... self cast spells"

they teasing people here, ziggyD makes an obvious pause there, he forces to literally not talk about attacks in his entire video, its not natural, they are not talking purposely on this topic

LOL dude

Believe me I would love for this to be some epic troll by ggg but it's not. Bex has confirmed on Reddit they are focusing on spells for 3.6, its in the ziggyd video several times and they confirmed new spell supports.

No I'm afraid the patch itself is the troll, where melee players have been complaining for half a decade and get surprised with a truckload of spell changes yet again. Sorry to burst your bubble friend, you must not have been playing poe that long to believe meaningful melee changes are coming

I predict a single new melee gem and a 5% increase to glacial hammer damage

"

ciel289 wrote:

i read something about melee beeing adressed in 3.7,but atm i´m not sure if it was a official ggg post since i cant find it.

It was bex on Reddit, but she didn't say they were definitely doing it, just that "Sorry this is spells turn, check back in 3.7 to see if they fix melee then", something to that effect

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

you must not have been playing poe that long to believe meaningful melee changes are coming

i play for long enoght to not believe in a single word Bex says, she is a clown, a VERY GOOOOOOOD clown.

and nothing you said eliminates the possibility of a melee balance, nothing blocks then to raise the damage of all melee habilitys if they didnt had the time to properly rework then.

edit: Clown in a good way, not trying to be toxic or anything

"

ciel289 wrote:

show me 1 build with gear worth 10c + tabula that has accepable level of dps and survieability to safely clear red maps,that isnt arc,winter orb,cold snap+vortey,brand,trap or totem based.

to set a baseline of what is a accepable

-over 5k life/ 6.5k es or 4.2k life + mom + reasonable option recover the lost mana (like crafted dmg taken gained as mana on atleast 2 of the 3 possible ring/amu slots or good manaregen that isnt eaten up by your spellusage)
-the ability to recover high enough regen/es recharge leech
-2nd layer of defences (endurance charges,eva,armor or dmg taken as x)
-caped resitences (doesnt mean chaso resitences)
-30% movementspeed on boots
-250k mapboss not shaper dps

you get the tabula for "free",a budget of 10c no other items with more than 1 good resi + 1good es/life mod + a craftable mod that doesnt cost more than 4c (good doesnt mean put 2 tier 1mods on all items!)

-if you are using mom you cant reserve more than 50% of your mana

-similar items have to be listed for trade in any league (they dont have to be the exact same fire could be cold resi instead and the rolls could be better but still in the same tier)

you will never be able to reach these numbers and they are on the very low end of what i would ever even consider running alced red tier maps with.

feel free to prove me wrong.

its your claim "10c + tabula are enough for spells (not top tier spells! even those would have a hard time with these stats) to clear endgame content" , so its on you to proof it.

You just listed a bunch of spells and totems? Why didn't you mention one broken godly melee gem and build too? Oh because there isn't one that stands out on that budget. That was my whole my point....but let's just forget all that and just stick to the statement I made and not the example


You want to make it fair, make spells require the same amount of investment as melee.



So if you need to find a 300+ DPS weapon to have good melee damage then I think balance is needing to have a 300+ Spell damage weapon to do damage.

This would require changes but that would be equality.

So the main complaint seems to be that true melee range melee skills aren't as good as spells... the only way to improve them mechanically is to give them range/aoe and make them not 'melee' so they won't even be the same skill.

I'm sure there are ways of improving the quality of life for namelock melee, but a 'stand toe to toe with dangerous baddies' skill will always be mechanically inferior when measuring clearing power, that is just unavoidable, even if you can one shot everything you encounter.

There seems to be some unrealistic desires being voiced here, If you want to play melee that plays like spells..just play spells?

"

brushmonkey wrote:

So the main complaint seems to be that true melee range melee skills aren't as good as spells... the only way to improve them mechanically is to give them range/aoe and make them not 'melee' so they won't even be the same skill.

I'm sure there are ways of improving the quality of life for namelock melee, but a 'stand toe to toe with dangerous baddies' skill will always be mechanically inferior when measuring clearing power, that is just unavoidable, even if you can one shot everything you encounter.

There seems to be some unrealistic desires being voiced here, If you want to play melee that plays like spells..just play spells?

its even worst than that, People dont like Molten strike, double strike, bladeflurry, tectonic slan and all other melee skills anyone says its good, they dont like voidforge Two handed game play, and 1 handed multimod is too expensive, mind you, spend currency on a currency based game, nonsense. They want to play with a full yellow 1c gear and kill uber elder, because someone did that with storm brand, so now, every melee need be on that level too.