REWORK the Lord's Labyrinth in 4.0, or else..

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Contrary to your false assertion, when I play standard I don't have to do any trials, not even Uber trials. The rest of your statements about me are [Removed by Support]

Why can't you just bury the hatchet? You are always antagonising Fruz every chance you get. Politically correctly so, but antagonising nonetheless.

Your constant, but I mean constant use of the word 'loathsome' when addressing the Lab was feedback once, now it's a trigger. You also claim credit for the changes to the Lab, despite evidence pointing in other directions, like the new Acts system.

I'm just saying, you may bring a fair argument and you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but can't you be a little less passive aggressive? Just a sliver of respect. I think it would go a long way towards people respecting you, the things you say and what you stand for.

I'd give you examples, but you're clever and I think you know exactly what I mean. :)

One thing that does annoy me is how the eternal lab trials are infinitely more difficult than any trap setup you'll ever encounter on eternal lab. Aside from that, I cant guarantee that ANY build that cant do uber lab, cant do most high end content like delve bosses, uber atziri and red elder. Heck, youll probably fail even at yellow elder.

Its possible for any build to completely avoid any trap setup easily, with any movement skill supported with faster attacks/casting as the only investment whatsoever. The only builds Ill admit that make things a bit complicated are abyssus builds. Otherwise, saying that builds that can clear normal content, cant do uber lab is a complete lie.

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One thing that does annoy me is how the eternal lab trials are infinitely more difficult than any trap setup you'll ever encounter on eternal lab. Aside from that, I cant guarantee that ANY build that cant do uber lab, cant do most high end content like delve bosses, uber atziri and red elder. Heck, youll probably fail even at yellow elder.

Its possible for any build to completely avoid any trap setup easily, with any movement skill supported with faster attacks/casting as the only investment whatsoever. The only builds Ill admit that make things a bit complicated are abyssus builds. Otherwise, saying that builds that can clear normal content, cant do uber lab is a complete lie.

They are trials for a reason, meant to prove you are ready. Yes, they are more difficult, because they focus on one field, where the Lab itself is a combination of all.

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Artophwar wrote:

I dont mind Labyrinth itself but as others have mentioned the trials are bad. I think they are annoying, boring, and feel like a waste of time. If they reworked trials I would be pretty happy. Have some other way to unlock the Lab.

I think reworking old content like they have done with the Forsaken Masters would be good for the game. Lab and Prophecy need to be updated, as they both have good ideas that are held back by some annoyances.

Good point; some of the prophecies definitely need to be reworked as well.

I agree with GGG's decision to create a gating mechanism for Uber Lab, but I also agree that the trials are just time-wasting tedium. And they are not at all balanced in that regard: Swirling Fear, for example, takes far less time than most of the other variants.

The most recent Lab tweaks have involved making the journey feel more rewarding by randomizing and distributing more rewards throughout the Labyrinth, to reward explorer playstyles (who were previously harshly punished by the Lab reward distribution). They could do more in this regard, but not without randomizing the Lab completely (which I strongly recommend, for that exact reason).

Ideally, GGG could do the same for the Trials: Make them more fun to run. I'm not sure how they'd do that, though. Maybe place a darkshrine right at the beginning of each trial, that might make the run easier or might make the reward at the end greater? Call it a mini-Labyrinth, decrease the encounter rate for it, and automatically spawn uncleared Trials for players who have yet to complete them.

Failing that, shortening some of the longer ones should help a lot. It's not that they are difficult; it's that they are long and boring. Especially (but not only) the fire one.

Yes GGG, please rework the labyrinth to better involve positional management, dodging, thought experiments and puzzles etc. We have enough mindless combat thanks.

Love you...

(This is a serious post)

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Xavathos wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Contrary to your false assertion, when I play standard I don't have to do any trials, not even Uber trials. The rest of your statements about me are [Removed by Support]

Why can't you just bury the hatchet? You are always antagonising Fruz every chance you get. Politically correctly so, but antagonising nonetheless.

Your constant, but I mean constant use of the word 'loathsome' when addressing the Lab was feedback once, now it's a trigger. You also claim credit for the changes to the Lab, despite evidence pointing in other directions, like the new Acts system.

I'm just saying, you may bring a fair argument and you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but can't you be a little less passive aggressive? Just a sliver of respect. I think it would go a long way towards people respecting you, the things you say and what you stand for.

I'd give you examples, but you're clever and I think you know exactly what I mean. :)

I apologize to you if you feel that I haven't treated you with the utmost respect. I want to always treat you with respect because I genuinely respect you.

Fruz has worked hard to lose my respect. Fruz goes out of his way to make false statements when he is discussing me. He hypocritically states that he has to tell me how the game works yet incorrectly asserts that GGG didn't reduce the trials to once per league for all trials, even the Uber trials. As just one minor very recent example. He lies that I repeatedly claim each release that GGG is going to remove ascendancy points from the lab. Okay this time I'm not sure he said each release but when he has stated this same lie in the past it's what he's usually stated, since this is not the first instance of him making a similar lie about me. I would happily ignore the fellow but he's the one instigating it.

Take this time as an example, I make a silly joke and Fruz jumps in from no where spewing his lies about me. When I mention that GGG has in fact made significant changes to lab contrary to his assertions he falsely asserts what those changes were not and then repeats his lie about me that I have repeatedly predicted again and again that GGG would remove the ascendancy points from the lab. I really don't remember making any such prediction ever. I've frequently stated it as something that I think would be good for the game but haven't predicted it except in jest as you saw in this thread.

It's not just me, he frequently jumps down the throat making personal attacks on people that come to the Feedback and Suggestions forum to give their Feedback and Suggestions. I'm just not inclined to let him get away with his nonsense when he directs it at me.

edit: I have not claimed personal credit for changes to lab. I simply stated that those changes were obviously made in response to customer feedback. The relevance to this thread is that early on I may have predicted some unknown changes to lab. GGG did in fact make multiple rounds of changes. The extent of the new act changes were made probably because of this thread Changes to the Labyrinth GGG in that thread proposed a set of changes and the customer feedback apparently convinced them that they needed to do more and they did more.

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Xavathos wrote:

They are trials for a reason, meant to prove you are ready. Yes, they are more difficult, because they focus on one field, where the Lab itself is a combination of all.

For what reason? I proved that I'm "ready" about 5 or 6 leagues ago. In my opinion trials should be mandatory only for players, who have never finished them before. For veterans it's just a boring duty that they must accomplish to finish character or maybe some source of income for poor. Although I have character fully capable to finish any trial, I never do it, even if I play labrunner.

Waste of time, which I will rather spend to run lab itself. From my point of view trials are some obsolete and outdated content, which should be kicked out, just like “old” masters missions. Was really sick, when I had to level Vorici, Haaku or Elreon to lvl 8, even though I used all possible help, like “gracious master” or “master seeks help”. Same issue with trials. Have them all at the latest on the third day of the start of each league, but it is just boring, senseless and useless chore. They will not teach me anything or prove anything, except maybe the developers are lazy and stubborn brats ;)

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postrach_myszy wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

They are trials for a reason, meant to prove you are ready. Yes, they are more difficult, because they focus on one field, where the Lab itself is a combination of all.

For what reason? I proved that I'm "ready" about 5 or 6 leagues ago. In my opinion trials should be mandatory only for players, who have never finished them before. For veterans it's just a boring duty that they must accomplish to finish character or maybe some source of income for poor. Although I have character fully capable to finish any trial, I never do it, even if I play labrunner.

Waste of time, which I will rather spend to run lab itself. From my point of view trials are some obsolete and outdated content, which should be kicked out, just like “old” masters missions. Was really sick, when I had to level Vorici, Haaku or Elreon to lvl 8, even though I used all possible help, like “gracious master” or “master seeks help”. Same issue with trials. Have them all at the latest on the third day of the start of each league, but it is just boring, senseless and useless chore. They will not teach me anything or prove anything, except maybe the developers are lazy and stubborn brats ;)

Hm thats a good point.

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except maybe the developers are lazy and stubborn brats ;)

ahaha holy shit, if we would been on overwatch forum you will be suspended for like 2 months for saying something like this :D

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Turtledove wrote:

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Hey TD, I tried getting back to you like five times today, but the website kept messing up every time I finished writing a post about as long as yours.

I'll give you the short version:
No need for any apology, you've done nothing wrong. As a fellow player who also loves PoE, I just wish you and Fruz would get along, as I'm convinced neither of you actually mean any harm. I'm not asking you to be the Yin to his Yang, but it seems to be mutually beneficial to at least try to coexist on a forum... :)

I say this to you now, but I've told Fruz the same thing in the past.

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Xavathos wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Hey TD, I tried getting back to you like five times today, but the website kept messing up every time I finished writing a post about as long as yours.

I'll give you the short version:
No need for any apology, you've done nothing wrong. As a fellow player who also loves PoE, I just wish you and Fruz would get along, as I'm convinced neither of you actually mean any harm. I'm not asking you to be the Yin to his Yang, but it seems to be mutually beneficial to at least try to coexist on a forum... :)

I say this to you now, but I've told Fruz the same thing in the past.

Forum server is super flaky today!

For arguments sack, let's assume that Fruz meant no harm. If he meant no harm then when you and I both told him my statement was made in jest then you'd expect him to say something like, "Sorry, I guess that I misunderstood." Is that what happened? No, he doubled down with his harm after each time. Repeating again the lie that every release I make the same prediction that GGG will remove the ascendancy points from the lab or significantly change the lab even more than they already had.

If Fruz meant no harm then he wouldn't be pretending that GGG has not made significant changes to lab because of customer feedback. Why won't he admit that? Simply because it doesn't fit into the false narrative that he's pushing. The false narrative which he tailored to cause the maximum harm that he thinks that he can get by the moderators.

I really wish it was true that Fruz means no harm but all evidence points to the opposite.