Can We Get Rid of Death XP Penalties Already? Games Are Supposed to be Fun

@robmafia

Why shouldn't the penalty be decreased? I missed your ten-page dissertation. Can you concisely inform me? Thanks, bud.

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charliemim wrote:

@robmafia

Why shouldn't the penalty be decreased? I missed your ten-page dissertation. Can you concisely inform me? Thanks, bud.

so you're too lazy to look it up, yourself, but want and expect me to type up ~10 pages worth of posts again?

even better: according to logic, the burden lies with the one calling for change. you have no argument.

i think it should be 15% again. or higher. make actual risk:reward for tankiness/better play.

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charliemim wrote:

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grogzor wrote:

why not turn back the 10% xp penalty to 5% or 2%?

From what I can gather there really isn't a reason. Unless making things unfun and overly punishing players for things that might not even be their faults are valid reasons. It's a compromise, and those are supposedly good. I really feel it's a rhetorical question.

I think the argument that without any kind of death penalty, "zerging" your way through content would be enabled, is a valid one.

the other argument is less valid, but you can't completely shrug it off: if there were zero repercussions for death, then everybody and their grandmothers would be playing absolutely aggressive dps builds. think about it? why would anyone need defenses besides the absolute basics if you could just go for max damage output and hyperspeedclear everything. because even if you die 1 or 2 times every map, you would still be faster than the build that makes sure it has stacked a billion defensive layers.

so I do believe a death penalty makes sense here. however, there is absolutely zero need to punish players this harshly. 10% is far too much and I have yet to read a good argument why it needs to be this high.

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grogzor wrote:

10% is far too much and I have yet to read a good argument why it needs to be this high.

dat selective reading.

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Synopse wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

The way the game works ( including the death penalty ), is not a view of the game, if anything, it's the view of the devs, and it is the game, period.

Did you never criticized any decision the dev's made in this game? Would you mind, if I remember you to this, if you criticize anything on PoE, because this is the game.Yes, XP penalties are part of the game based on its dev's decision. But what makes your so sure that devs will never change their mind on this. In the past, GGG has shown that they are not afraid to even change core design decisions. There may be changes on XP penalities in fututre or they may not. It is not your decision but that of the devs. So please stick with real arguments.

It seems that you just missed what I was answering/referring to :

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It's a particular view of the game which is being forced to all the players.

Which is - as I was pointing out - not.

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Synopse wrote:

There is a reason why Alt+F4 still works to rescue your character, because you need this last chance if unavoidable certain death awaits you. It is ridiculous, if you ask me. Never ever a game calling itself challenging should have such a cheesy feature. There is no justification for any death penalty as long as it is easier to prevent certain death using an log-out script rather than playing with skill, caution and brain. Simple as it is, one of the most successful tactics avoiding certain death is quiting the game as fast as possible. Can you see the irony?

That is just your opinion though of course, I have played HC a lot on this game, and I can tell you that sometimes the adrenaline spikes are real, and that the balance around the fact that you can just log out anytime does definitely participate to that.
Would I enjoy the game more if the balance was different and such log outs were not 'allowed' ?
I can't tell.
But I can see how the current version can be good, this plus + potential network problems that it can help with.
So to me, GGG's direction regarding this makes plenty of sense.
But it's not the topic to be honest.

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grogzor wrote:

@fruz: you keep attacking a strawman in my opinion. did everybody here state that they want to entirely get rid of the xp penalty? Sure, some people share that view, but I have stated repeatedly, that I dont. I think a death penalty makes sense. however, I dont agree with the harshness of it. there is no point in throwing players back multiple hours or even days for small mistakes.

Sorry then, I'm not keeping track on everybody's opinion, especially regarding this one, as many do want it to just be removed.
I'm not for a rework of it as I think that it fills its purpose, and that most people would keep complaining anyway, but if done well (were it would still matter enough to keep a certain balance), it could be a good thing I guess.

2% would definitely be too little.
5% would still be meaningful, but it would make the "soft cap" were it gets really punishing a bit farther, meaning that some would likely complain ... reaching level 93 instead of level 92 for example. 5% feels a bit little to me tbh.

10% is pretty much nothing unless you die a lot until level 90, then level -> 91 or even -> 92 is not super difficult but it starts kicking in more, and after that it starts being really punishing.
Since level 90 is already pretty good to roll over most things with a build, this feels like something consistent to me.
It feels like it really punishes in the ... "unnecessary" levels.

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Fruz wrote:

I'm not for a rework of it as I think that it fills its purpose, and that most people would keep complaining anyway, but if done well (were it would still matter enough to keep a certain balance), it could be a good thing I guess.

you can be 100% sure that people would still complain, they always do, but that wouldnt neccessarily make it the wrong move. I believe it would be a step in the right direction.

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Fruz wrote:

2% would definitely be too little.
5% would still be meaningful, but it would make the "soft cap" were it gets really punishing a bit farther, meaning that some would likely complain ... reaching level 93 instead of level 92 for example. 5% feels a bit little to me tbh.

I am rather noobish at this game, so I couldnt really tell you which percentage makes the perfect sense. if the current 10% can mean you lose lots and lots of hours for one mistake, then I believe that 10% are too high. you say 2% would definitely be too litte, but does it not prevent people from zerging? because zerging basically means you throw your body into enemy waves and dont care if you die nonstop, because all you care about is so reach a certain goal, for example finishing a boss.
and would 2% not also mean that you cannot afford to go full glass cannon? because imagine dying right now at lvl 97 or 98 or something. how many friggin hours do you lose? I imagine a lot. if you divide the amount of hours by 5 now, I believe that would still be a punishment that you cant just sneeze at. it would just be more reasonable as in "you dont get thrown back multiple days, but only multiple hours".

[Removed by Support]

So it shouldn't be lowered, but rather increased, because you feel that everyone should be railroaded into a limited selection of builds at endgame. That's your response? That's how I interpreted your immature little word fart. Correct me if it's necessary. The burden is on me to read ten pages of anything you typed? Okay. Nope.

While it's great that PoE has it's own wannabe version of Ben Shapiro here on the forums, I respectfully disagree with your opinion. Many people complain that, although there are a lot of customization options available, a select few of these options completely negate all others (at endgame). That would seem kind of lame.

It is convenient (because your goal is to be a shit) that you ignore the fact that it's possible to die (even with an extremely tanky build) to absolute BS. I truly believe that you are filled with glee when you consider a person losing six to eight hours of their time for no good reason. However, I'm pretty sure most would disagree with that.

Have a flat one, sport.

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Fruz wrote:

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Synopse wrote:

There is a reason why Alt+F4 still works to rescue your character, because you need this last chance if unavoidable certain death awaits you. It is ridiculous, if you ask me. Never ever a game calling itself challenging should have such a cheesy feature. There is no justification for any death penalty as long as it is easier to prevent certain death using an log-out script rather than playing with skill, caution and brain. Simple as it is, one of the most successful tactics avoiding certain death is quiting the game as fast as possible. Can you see the irony?

That is just your opinion though of course, I have played HC a lot on this game, and I can tell you that sometimes the adrenaline spikes are real, and that the balance around the fact that you can just log out anytime does definitely participate to that.
Would I enjoy the game more if the balance was different and such log outs were not 'allowed' ?
I can't tell.
But I can see how the current version can be good, this plus + potential network problems that it can help with.
So to me, GGG's direction regarding this makes plenty of sense.
But it's not the topic to be honest.

Yes, it is a good workaround. Yet, the same reason why there is need for this workaround are the reasons why I have issues with any death penalities in this game. I think that you was more successful in finding way to deal with this. Anyway, my impression is that we both have a pretty similar understanding of the current sitation. Yet, we come to different conclusions. :)

(Thanks for pointing out the thing with 'this is the game'. The details are too delicate to just split hairs on this topic.)

lolz @ calling strawman on people wanting the xp penalty removed in a thread that's TITLED JUST THAT.

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charliemim wrote:

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robmafia wrote:

"I'm disrespectful and instigate people on the internet."

So it shouldn't be lowered, but rather increased, because you feel that everyone should be railroaded into a limited selection of builds at endgame. That's your response? That's how I interpreted your immature little word fart. Correct me if it's necessary. The burden is on me to read ten pages of anything you typed? Okay. Nope.

While it's great that PoE has it's own wannabe version of Ben Shapiro here on the forums, I respectfully disagree with your opinion. Many people complain that, although there are a lot of customization options available, a select few of these options completely negate all others (at endgame). That would seem kind of lame.

It is convenient (because your goal is to be a shit) that you ignore the fact that it's possible to die (even with an extremely tanky build) to absolute BS. I truly believe that you are filled with glee when you consider a person losing six to eight hours of their time for no good reason. However, I'm pretty sure most would disagree with that.

Have a flat one, sport.

fakequotes me as disrespectful.

makes a gigantic tirade of nothing but namecalling and lies.

poe 2018.