I don't consider this EXCELLENT player retention

"I don't consider this EXCELLENT player retention"

They only care about mtx sales. Thats why they put insane prices - its money for them, not gaming stuff for us.

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Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

But it is good compared to other leagues = progress. Compare it with Incursion which was a great league all around.

Incursion
95K start - 42K 1 month

Delve
75K start - 45K 1 month

I don't like Delve for various reasons but it is what it is.

Every league was a great league compared to Incursion, come on.

The fact is that Delve did no better than Harbinger or Abyss. Which makes it somewhat puzzling that GGG would refer to Delve's retention as "excellent", for two reasons.

First, GGG explicitly said that they want to improve retention with Delve. Did they just mean an improvement compared to Incursion? Because that's not much of a bar. Did Harby/Abyss also have "excellent" retention?

Second, Harby and Abyss had no infinite endgame. Wouldn't you expect Delve's infinite endgame to give you significantly better retention than those leagues?



Here's the only context that I can think of in which GGG's comments make sense: they know that the constant power creep is killing retention, and so their standards fall with every patch. What was average retention a year ago is considered "excellent" today, because it's measured against a backdrop of higher speed gameplay, quicker progression, and faster burnout.

For me, the announcement reinforced what I witness in my smaller community of friends who play. Of all my friends who play the game, the only ones who make it beyond a month (on any given league) are the ones on standalone clients. My Steam friends use Steam specifically because it gives them easy access to a lot of games; something they enjoy because they can't stick to a single game for more than a few weeks. This league, they actually made it over a month which for them is nearly unheard of but they still left after 5 weeks so only slight improvement.

Tiny sample size from an anecdote and certainly doesn't prove anything; but I still think Steam players tend to be on Steam for a reason not too dissimilar to why my friends are.

The Steam charts don't show a significantly better retention for Delve (though better than last league). If GGG is seeing better retention, the majority of those folks are not coming from the Steam community in my opinion.

I don't analyze graphs or even care that much, but from what I've seen in-game and on streams, retention doesn't seem any better or worse than any other league. I don't see why it would be either. There's like a total of 12 people in the entire player base who push Delves. Everyone else is just playing normally and quitting normally.

"

suszterpatt wrote:

"

Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

But it is good compared to other leagues = progress. Compare it with Incursion which was a great league all around.

Incursion
95K start - 42K 1 month

Delve
75K start - 45K 1 month

I don't like Delve for various reasons but it is what it is.

Every league was a great league compared to Incursion, come on.

The fact is that Delve did no better than Harbinger or Abyss. Which makes it somewhat puzzling that GGG would refer to Delve's retention as "excellent", for two reasons.

First, GGG explicitly said that they want to improve retention with Delve. Did they just mean an improvement compared to Incursion? Because that's not much of a bar. Did Harby/Abyss also have "excellent" retention?

Second, Harby and Abyss had no infinite endgame. Wouldn't you expect Delve's infinite endgame to give you significantly better retention than those leagues?



Here's the only context that I can think of in which GGG's comments make sense: they know that the constant power creep is killing retention, and so their standards fall with every patch. What was average retention a year ago is considered "excellent" today, because it's measured against a backdrop of higher speed gameplay, quicker progression, and faster burnout.

Yeah, good points. It does seem that Delve has pretty much the same retention than other GOOD leagues.

I think the excellent retention is rather a blanket statement as the progress itself is way worse than before. You progress sooooo much slower nowadays than you did before and skinner boxing gets crazier and crazier.

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FrodoFraggins wrote:

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LMTR14 wrote:

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Incursion = insane power creep with no end game.
Delve = actual end game.

What cant you guys understand?

Further, how do you think a better retention should be achieved?

focus on permanent game mode instead of temp leagues that are only marginally different from each other. simple as that. no leagues, no league dropoff curve.

That's a terrible idea. The economy would be ruined and the replay value takes a massive nosedive.

Leagues are precisely why this game is so successful and made chris a very rich man.

thank god you aren't in charge of the game.

doesn't matter shit if you leave cause 3x more new players will join. that is the genius of it. the neophobe veterans crippling everybody's game experience need to be removed from the equation if they don't want to adjust (and that would happen in every other game too, just think of league of legends for example - once they changed literally every numeric value in the game from one day to the other!). I would double this game's average player number/day easy peasy, 100% sure of that, just by using elements that worked well in other video games.

doing the same shit from scratch over and over again isn't gonna cut it anymore, especially not if these inane temp leagues get so many bad reactions these days. around 1 in 2 people on this forum hates delve!

and of course you ignored the actual point, namely how to increase player retention. even more of a reason to disregard your OPINION.

PS: econowhat?! this is a single-player game, as evidenced by the fact trading mechanics in this game work on a stone-age level and so trading is clearly only optional.

I’m so thankful that some of the folks in this thread/forum are not involved in the development of POE. I don’t think I could compile a list of such terrible ideas if I was trying. I’ll try just to see.....

You know what was a great game? Starfox. POE needs more of that in a modern way. They should add a new class that is space based, that comes with a space ship. Or at least add it as ascendancy for Scion....Space Commander. Rather than equipping the character you outfit the ship. Also, aliens. And interplanetary exploration. For every one person who leaves you’ll get one billion people who come.

There's a standalone client that lots of ppl use... I wish GGG would show those statistics to shut everyone up for once.

Also you have to take the time of year into account.

im not sure why anyone would want to play this game off steam.