Delve Costing Changes

Does the fact that people are tending to delve deeper level-wise than they can sustain maps for indicate a need for a rebalance on the map-sustain front?


If I sustain maps at 75, but am pushing 80 in delves, does that mean that overall sustain is falling short?

The sulphite/azurite system (as non-tradable) is actually a great step in this direction, but also seems directly linked to map sustain (which is either RNG or forced currency investment to facilitate sustain).

Do you foresee a more linear (non-currency/RNG/grind) map sustain system being possible with the master rework?

For the record: I am not arguing that you cannot sustain maps. I am saying that the tendency is to fall behind, as the methods of sustain compete with trade/crafting currency etc.
Why was this even changed to begin with? Things were mathematically impossible in some cases? So yet again not even cursory glances at changes being made...
Just so you guys at GGG understand, this mentality of changing the game based on the ridiculous assumption that the average player has 120%IIQ and completes T16 maps in 120 seconds, (then making changes around this stupidity), is why I went from spending $30 a month in your store to absolutely nothing since Abyss.
Blaze13 wrote:
What about making it so you will always see 3 nodes on a map no matter what. Because currently its kinda depressing seeing 1 node and getting little to nothing for it.

I think a base of 2 nodes would be good for maps, so you can still get lucky or not, but only within a window of missing an extra 50%. The current balance of 1-3 nodes is some brutal variance.

Though after seeing how heavy the ramp-up in higher map sulphite is with the recent changes this revised scaling is absolutely the right direction IMO. I think it's fair to expect players to run mixed Red Maps to get a good rate of running T11-T16 equivalent Delves, but asking that they always run T15/T16 to get an adequate amount of sulphite was... something that I was not going to be able to do.

But again, we'll see how the numbers work out. Quarry was too good; we know that. And yes, I would rather run maps than Quarry at similar efficiency, or even half what it was. But not being able to do even that feels really bad.

P.S. The long Delve discount is really cool. I have way more fun with long Delves thanks to the extra exploring you get to do, so making it easier to access the more enjoyable content makes me happy. Fingers crossed that the changes overall will be for the better.
Last edited by dummyacct7 on Sep 21, 2018, 1:56:08 AM
My wife left me
I mean I'm guessing the curve was assuming 270+ delvers were chaining t16+? Do you not have data on map tiers of players?

edit: I appreciate the quick change I just wonder at how you get to that conclusion.

By the way, people should calm down a bit. Sustaining rep maps (t11-t15) is a lot more doable this league with new zana mods. The situation will be better after this change than before today's patch (unless you were assuming running quarry to access mlvl 83 content including drops was reasonable)
Last edited by ladish on Sep 21, 2018, 2:01:50 AM
This certainly sounds like an improvement, but doesn't actually address the root problem.

There's no reason for delves to be gated behind maps. When you announced delve league, you said that the goal of the delve mechanic was to keep the game fresh for longer, because many people were "done" with a league within the first month.

We're done with the league because we've farmed all of the maps we can stand to farm, and have nothing else left to explore. If you want to force me to spend 3 hours in maps for every hour of new content I want to do in delves, I'm just going to tell you to fuck right off with that, and quit at my usual pace.

You have failed in your goal of extending league life, and done so seemingly intentionally, by artificially gating the new content behind the boring old content.

Delve depth should be about how deep you can survive, not how hard you can grind maps. Literally everything else is already about how hard you can grind maps.

It isn't even like gating it is needed for loot reasons. Maps give 10x as much loot as delves (if you're doing the things that make maps rewarding: elder blob, sextants, zana mods, etc), so people still have plenty of reason to play maps if they haven't gotten tired of them yet.
The issue I've had lately is that I just knew that filling up my sulphite stock would take me about 20 maps at tier 16. Coming out of a delve and knowing I have to do 20 maps to head back in there just kills my enthusiasm for wanting to delve deeper.

I realize it might be too late with regards to game balance and whatnot, but I'd wish for a reconsideration around how you are intentionally keeping people away from the mine for the majority of game time.
Mapping or Delve. But not both.
Community feedback so far suggests that we were wrong about this.

No shit.

In order to address this, we are reducing the ramp of Sulphite during maps, and we are changing the curve from exponential to linear. This means, for example, that the difference between someone sustaining Tier 16 maps and someone sustaining Tier 12 is much, much lower than before.

Great, now they will nerf T16 too.

At the same time, we are still retaining the thing we wanted to actually fix, which is that maps are a lot more rewarding than non-maps for progressing in Delve.


We don't need maps to be more rewarding than non-maps for progressing in Delve. We need maps to be rewarding for progressing in Delve. I hope you can understand the difference.

Reduced the Sulphite cost of longer Delves (starting at length 2) slightly, with a larger discount for longer lengths. At length 6, the discount is 25%.

What an astounishing charity /s

Longer Delves already have better rewards than shorter ones, and are now discounted to incentivise players further for choosing them.

Now we only need enough flares to make get that rewards on a long delve.

Provided slightly more Sulphite bonus for Map Item Quantity.

Whoa, 1% more per 100% IIQ?
Organic chemistry is a weird thing. If you add a spoon of shit to a barrel of jam you'll get a barrel of shit.
But can you please don't increase the delve cost drastically before 600? Is for challenger .... those who wan no-life then you could increase the delve cost drastically ...

Then what's the purpose of delve leaderboard? Player who farm the most sulphite or best play build?
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