Some of you seem to hate maps, why?

Somehow people have not managed to self sustain t11+ maps even after so many buffs to player power and map sustain. Zana makes it almost too easy. People just seem to run 3 high level maps, find that they are not swimming in maps and decide the system sucks.

At the moment, unless you are actively trying to sabotage yourself or are solo self found, there is no reason why you can not self sustain T12+ maps.

Maps have been around and the end game for such a long time that I'm sure many people are somewhat bored with them where as delves provide something truly unique and interesting comparatively.

Because gating content behind anything other than my personal ability to overcome said content will always piss me off. GGG puts entirely too much thought and effort into making sure that we can't play the content they made.

I've never been a huge fan of mapping for some reason. I don't hate it at all.

It's just that for example farming dried lake with a vaal sparker in the older days is more my thing. i think that shit is so much fun. And watching how u gain currency and power level gems and what not.

With maps u can still do it sort of but you've to keep investing into maps which cuts down the profits etc.

I also prefer to farm same chosen map over and over again over just random map here and there. Which seem to be frowned upon around here on the forums. ^^

This league i'll be going full atlas however so i can sustain sulphite better.

Also ever since i gone ssf couple leagues ago i've enjoyed mapping much more. Probably because of my point up above. No more thinking about profits and so on.

But i guess it's a thing i've with me from over 10 years of d2. I enjoy mfing in d2 and still do to this day. Also i enjoy chaos/baal runs. Since i grew up doing this, this is probably also why i enjoy such system more than just plain mapping in PoE.

Dominus runs used to be tons of fun! back in the days.

Don't hate maps at all, but I dislike filling up the atlas because of RNG. Also don't like uber lab access because of trial RNG. In some places I feel GGG has put RNG where it should not be.

People always hate something in every game ever,if the developer listens to them and makes changes,another portion of people will hate something else.

Developers should give the middle finger from time to time and people should simply gtfo or deal with it.

Pretty much the only answer to every "hate" thread.

IMO maps are fine,the RNG is all about trade and SSF is something that you clicked in a heavy trade centered game,don't even bring it up.

Heavy RNG gated progression combined with crappy trading. If you hit a dry streak, you have to go trade and that's a pain. It's not gated by whether or not your character can do it, it's gated on whether or not the drop happened.

I honestly don't think the majority of people hate mapping in general... I would vouch to say that a large group of people do not enjoy red-level mapping.

The tedium of mapping has gone way to far and can be annoying after a while.

There was a time that all you needed was chisel, alch, vaal and the occasional zana mod to sustain reds (like 1 zana mod every 5 maps).

Now?

Chisel.
Alch.
Vaal.
Bloodlines Zana Mod.
Sextants.
Check Elder/Shaper influence. Run Reds that have Elder for better maps.

It's too fucking much. You have to fucking analyze ever fucking part of the process to make sure you can sustain.

The recent changes to quant/rarity on maps is so fucking shitty now. Most alchs lead to 65 quant and 20 pack size. It's fucking annoying.

The over-nerfing of pack size and the relative contributions to map density of each map affix is all fucked up.

The one upside of all of this is that the drop rate of vaal orbs has increased significantly since incursion. If it weren't for that small adjustment, I wouldn't even be messing around with this league.

It should not be a struggle for players to get maps to drop after a certain level. There is no reason that level 93 characters should have to struggle to find red maps.

The other problem is that the RNG swing of map drops is so crazy that if you complain about map drops, the other side of the coin will berate you because their RNG was good to them:

"What are you talking about? Sustaining red maps is so easy. *proceeds to screen shot map inventory* You're doing something wrong!!"

There is no guarantee to map sustain. Only a false promise that if you "invest properly" it will work out in the end... the truth is that this is NOT always the case. You can invest til your eyes turn blue into your maps, and still hit long dry runs that will force you down multiple tiers in a span of 20 maps.

It's fucking annoying and stressful.

"

I don't hate maps. It's just that in Delve there are no league mechanics in maps, which makes it a bit stale. Also high level mapping is just not very rewarding at all.

Pretty much sums it up. I have been through this same cycle for far too many leagues to settle for a standard mapping experience. Going into Delve I knew I would be spending time in maps to delve. I just had no clue the ratios would be this skewed.

Endgame has always been a problem for every MMORPG or MMO ARPG. Devs can't build content as fast as people consume it. They dont want people to run out of things to do, so they have to artificially slow you down.

They have only a few options when this happens;

1 - Timed gates: i.e. content only respawns every week, so you are time limited. Everyquest did this, WoW used to do this.

2 - Insane but consistent farming: i.e. you need 10 million drops to move forward. Every mob/boss drops the item, but you need tons and tons of them,

and

3 - PoE's System: Inconsistent RNG streak progression. You may or may not progress, just depends on drops. You can up your playtime to get more chances, but sometimes that just doesnt do much.

The reason to hate #3 are obvious. You can grind grind grind but the maps just dont drop for you. This is generally not considered very fun in any game Ive ever heard of.


But the real question is
(1) is there any other more fun way to artificially slow people down so they dont beat the league on day 5 (I know some do it day 2, but generally it takes longer for normal players) or
(2) should they stop trying to limit people at all and let the streamers beat the game day 3, and build around the majority of players, who even if you gave them non-RNG map drops, would probably barely beat the league most seasons. (Ive lumped them into 2 groups here, really everyone is on the spectrum of fast to never complete it)

I would argue you build the game for the majority, and not the fastest players. So, change Atlas so that once you beat a map, you unlock the next map. No drops, no RNG, just progression.

I would up the difficulty of the atlas so that its skill gated or gear gated, not RNG and time gated.

But perhaps they have found the 10 hr a day players buy the most from GGG, so its better to cater to them than the 2 hr a day players. I dont know.

"

Kasapnica wrote:

IMO maps are fine,the RNG is all about trade and SSF is something that you clicked in a heavy trade centered game,don't even bring it up.

Well, lots of players have complained about trading system in PoE. In fact, to me it sounded so god-awful how it was described, I never even wanted to try it out.

Besides, I believe trading in a heavily solo-oriented arpg takes away feeling of accomplishing things yourself. With map system it is different: the way system is put in place, players can't play layouts they'd otherwise wish to. Not because their build can't survive the content or skill-wise (which would be a whole different case), but only because you are denied it rng-wise. Then, once in a while, a high-level map drops, and a player is granted a permission to run something challenging for a while. Whoa. To be fair, new Zana made it at least much more accessible, so things aren't as bad as they used to be. I am sure nothing would've changed there if the 'let them suck it' -attitude would've prevailed also on GGG's behalf.

It's funny how common attitude it is to tell people just suck it. PoE especially is a game where I hear it all the time. You do know there is an actual reason why many prefer playing SSF rather than trading?