Occultist CI Toxic Rain - Tri-Curse / Fast Tanky Clear / Uber Elder / Deep Delver

Will the new Occultist Chaos Ascendancy Damage nodes make up for the Quill Rain nerf?

I feel like the new Occultist ascendencies are worse for us than getting Vile Bastion and Malediction.

The chaos damage multiplier on the tree though is quite good. From Corruption, Atrophy, and Growth and Decay, we get a total of +38% multiplier.

If you want to go all in on them and also go get Method to the Madness you can get to 52%.

Note that this doesnt make up for a 40% LESS, because .6 * 1.52 = 91.2%.
Or without Method to the Madness, .6 * 1.38 = 82.8%.

If you get more chaos multiplier from the new delve item mods they are adding you might be able to make it all up.


Another possibility to make up the damage is Eber's Unification helm, which reduces nearby enemy chaos resistance.



Overall I think that:
* Our leveling is a lot worse due to Quill Rain, but still should be acceptable (because Toxic Rain was SO good as a leveling build before).
* Our map clear is slower than before due to lack of Quill Rain. We'll 1 shot the packs, but that shot will take a lot longer to fire. Alternately you could use a Quill Rain still but lose a small amount of damage.
* Our boss clear is even stronger now, using a +3 bow, because we now get an extra damage multiplier that we didn't have before.

When does the 40% less from Quill Rain get factored in to your damage formula?

I guess it would be combined with all of your 'more' and 'less' values from skill gems.

So you'd have 49% more for damage on full life, 49% more for vicious projectiles, 39% more for void manipulation and 40% less for quill rain

So our old 'more' 49 + 49 + 39 = 137%
New more is 49 + 49 + 39 - 40 = 97%

97%/137% = .7

If the above is true, then at max gem level, quill rain is only reducing your final dps by 30% not the full 40%.

Then using Alexfrog0's info on the chaos damage over time multiplier on the tree, it seems like the final dps will be 8% better than last patch, with quill rain, assuming you take skill tree nodes 'From Corruption, Atrophy, and Growth and Decay' for a new 38% multiplier.

Still going here.. but on the flip side at level 1 gems we'd have

Old More multiplier: 30 + 30 + 20 = 80
New More multiplier: 30 + 30 + 20 - 40 = 40

So it might actually be decreasing your dps at starting levels by more like 50%.

I'm just relying on my vague notion of how all these factors combine here, so please don't take this as correct until someone more familiar with game mechanics confirms or corrects it!

Ok ok, i'm doing this wrong for sure. I grabbed that formula from the poe wiki: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Stat

Lets say the base damage of an attack is 100
And we have 150% increased damage on the tree.
And we have 0% reduced damage
And we have 137% MORE damage on our skill gems.
And we have 0% LESS damage.

Using the formula our adjust damage would be

100 x (1 + 1.5 - 0) x (1 + 1.37) * (1 + 0) = 592 damage

With quill rain for the 40% LESS damge
100 x (1 + 1.5 - 0) x (1 + 1.37) x (1 - .4) = 355 damage

Which indeed is a .6 multiplier on your final damage. 592 * .6 = 355


So both of my previous posts are completely incorrect and Alexfrog0 is accurate.

Sorry for my wishful thinking!

You're closer but still slightly off, remember that more multipliers from different sources are also multiplicative with each other, so your damage would be more like

100 X (1+1.5-0) X (1.49X1.49X1.39) X (1-.4)

Your more multiplier is 3.08, not 2.37.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong as well, but that's how I've always understood it.

You're totally right! I missed the Pi symbol meaning 'product of everything in the series'

End of the day, the 'less' operator being another multiplier and not being added first to the other more mulitpliers, is what I had very wrong.

I played a TR penta totem inquisitor last league. Quill rain was the starter bow then you saved up for +3 elder with viscous projectile mod. I got a +2 with VP and killed shaper ez with it. I want to try this now, wondering if a bow like I used last time will be good. Reading everything you guys have said, it sounds like if I can get through part of the game with quill rain then yes.

I would guess that if you are able to pull off this build without quill rain it appears to be buffed this patch.

I've never played the build, with or without quill rain, but would be worried the attack speed would feel too slow without Quill. Would love to hear others experience with this.

You now have access to this additional multiplier in the "chaos damage over time multiplier". I think the tree for this build specifically picks up 2 of the clusters offering this new stat for like 20-ish percent multiplier on your chaos damage over time.

I was going to league start with this, but will now probably try something else first and look to this second when I have better leveling gear and some currency.

So this build is still good post quill rain? Or would pathfinder be better?