Is everyone enjoying rolepalying a genocidal plunderer?

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鬼殺し wrote:
As usual, my wonderful girlfriend summed it up nicely when I showed her the Incursion artwork. She has some artist friends in the industry (bioware and blizzard are the two I can think of on the spot), so she's a bit more sensitive to this stuff than some of us.

Her reaction:

"So they've made the invaders the good guys, and they've made the people being invaded the bad guys...uh, that's not good."

Even though we know the real-world historical details that inspired Incursion are a lot more grey than that, this is the essence of Incursion.

In regards to why this is so significant, here's something that we need to remember: the Karui represented the Maori, who although never really invaded still had to deal with encroaching European forces. At the same time, Oriath represented those European forces, fiercely colonial, very white, theocratic and rather fond of indigenous people as slaves. You do remember who was the bad guy in this original PoE scenario, right? Hint: the Karui didn't have nazi-style symbolism.

GGG gave the Karui depth and ambition and a desire for revenge. The Karui might have eventually been wrong in which gods they chose to worship, but at least we understood the Karui motivations. Kitava might be the bad guy but who can blame entire generations of slaves for finding him appealing if he was the enemy of their enemy's god, Innocence? Even before that revelation, we had diverse Karui npcs in Maramoa, Haku, Siosa and Lavianga; hell, we have a Karui player character, giving us a primary perspective of the Karui's place in Wraeclast and Oriath. PoE was a game made in a way ONLY New Zealanders could have made it, because only in NZ did you have this mixture of warlike natives, colonising outsiders and the varying resistance/acceptance responses by the Maori tribes. No other studio could have given us the Karui the way GGG did.

In that light, Incursion seems positively tone-deaf. TencentGGG are supremely ignorant to anything but the surface level of what Incursion might represent, and they clearly made no effort to try to learn any of it.

Were Incursion a movie, it'd be slammed with so many rightful accusations of racial stereotyping and tone-deafness it's not funny. It might have been okay in the 80s with stuff like Indiana Jones but we're way past that. But since it's safely tucked into a bubble largely populated by insular gamers not really known for grasping cultural nuances or the implications of art, it's not even a blip on the radar.

Still, either GGG fluked it first time around with their excellent depiction of fantasy-world Maori through the Karui or TencentGGG should have stuck with what they knew instead of misappropriating cultures and histories (and I believe it is that, having seen that art and discussed it briefly with the GF) about which they have an almost cartoonishly low level of understanding or apparently empathy.

You might not care about any of this, and that's fine, but TencentGGG sure as hell should have. What you should be worried about is what this level of laziness and lack of effort on their behalf might mean for future content.


Right, they took inspiration from the world around them and then made a game. Like how when I read Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time I can recognize that he chose to model many of the nations and peoples after real life nations and peoples...but that doesn't mean he was attempting to rewrite history or downplay significant historical events.

I'm sure you'll continue to take potshots at this game you no longer play, but the people actually playing it seem to think this league is cool as fuck. Who cares what your girlfriend thinks? The game mechanics are either fun or they aren't - that's what the players are here for.
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鬼殺し wrote:
YES, and get back to the cruelty towards animals GGG promoted with Bestiary! Because animals are real!

...Nah, fuck it. That horse is dead.

GGG killed it.

With their animal cruelty.


Speaking as someone who doesn't give a shit about animal cruelty, and might even find it funny in certain venues, Bestiary was just a massive poorly executed mechanic. If it was a little more macabre, it might have been fun, and even funny, but they didn't push it far enough, and the way it was implemented sucked.

Some of the red beasts were tougher than the red tier map bosses. I never got the impression I was murdering and pillaging helpless critters for their resources. Most of these "creatures" were killing machines. Not like "Haha! I just blew up a bunny to get a unique item!"
Last edited by MrSmiley21#1051 on Jun 7, 2018, 6:28:56 PM
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LowBudget780 wrote:

Oh wow we got a real bad ass over here.


Someone has to be adversarial to the pointless virtue signaling over something that's not all that common in western countries.

I remember my uncle used to train dogs, and he had 6 dogs at one point, and you know what he did to potty train a puppy? If they pooped inside, he'd grab them by the face and stick their nose in the pile they dropped. The little pup got scared, went aroo aroo aroo, but it wasn't injured. Snowflakes will claim even stuff like that is animal cruelty. People can't discipline their kids, pets, etc without prior snowflake approval. You're basically not allowed to make kids or animals emotionally uncomfortable in any way, or it's abuse.
Last edited by MrSmiley21#1051 on Jun 7, 2018, 6:38:26 PM
There's sure alot of mob killing in PoE.
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We7efrur wrote:
I'm certainly not. GGG must be living under rocks to force players to roleplay the genocide of the native americans by the Spanish Conquistadors with an extremely thinly veiled 'Kill the Native Americans for loot' story line in 2018.

Yes, Yes, I'm a filthy casual and I'm sure I'll be pilloried for being a snowflake SJW, but just think for a minute what the present Incursion League is really portraying.


Just out of curiosity, throughout all of history, how many races have NOT plundered & conquered/enslaved another or even themselves?

Not picking on the OP specifically. Just chose His/Hers/It's post since that is what started this thread. I guarantee no one can name a single race that hasn't been the victim or the perpetrator of genocide/enslavement. People need to stop getting their panties in a twist & crying about things that 1) Happened a long time ago 2) NEVER happened to them or anyone they know.

Humanity is the worst STD Mother Nature ever contracted
I have walked through the Valley of Death & emerged the Shadow of Evil

The Gene Pool needs chlorine

Humanity is the worst STD Mother Nature ever contracted
"
鬼殺し wrote:

Her reaction:

"So they've made the invaders the good guys, and they've made the people being invaded the bad guys...uh, that's not good."


Both sides were invaders. The people that populated North and South America found their way there in numerous waves, with the evidence suggesting at least 50K years. They came from different parts of the world and they (like just about every other group of people on Earth) attacked other groups in their area and tried to conquer them.

Both sides were warlike and willing to conquer, capture and kill their enemies to take what they had. The conquistadors had the advantage of better technology and larger resources. The Aztec and Inca had the advantage of larger populations (in the immediate area) and logistics.

That the mesoamericans had myths talking about deities with red beards should be clear that this wasn't their first contact with an outside civilization that was more advanced then they were. The history of the various civilizations in the area is one rising up, invading and conquering its neighbors, then falling to a new one. Throw in lots of brutal sacrifices to keep the warriors motivated and there are no good guys in the scenario. The priests WILL sacrifice thousands (have to keep that left handed hummingbird in the sky and make sure the rain bringer is happy if you want crops). Whether those sacrifices come from the local people, or those captured in war/raids is determined by whether they can capture enough of their neighbors for the sacrificial quotas.

Historically, the lens has always favored the victors. Having priests that skinned people alive and wore their rotting skin until fell apart didn't help the public perception, nor did sacrificing pregnant women by rolling them down temple stairs. The world has been and in many places still is a brutal place.

PoE has the character going after loot. The player is an exile who committed crimes. As players we are put in the position of playing the bad guy from the get go. The amount of "redemption" achieved is questionable.

Looting someone's temple doesn't make Alva or the player exile a good guy. It just makes the character an invader raiding the temple invaders. If we flip the perspective, it is easier to see who the "good guys" are.

If we had a Priestolotl as our guide, we would still be raiding someone else's temple, but then we would also be capturing some of the local guards and architects, which we would bring back to our local temples and then sacrifice using beast recipes.

POE made the invaders killing for loot the good guys, and they made the invaders still doing human sacrifice the bad guys.












"The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis
PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
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k1rage wrote:
Sometimes I think there is a subsection of the population that enjoys being offended and therefore look for things to take offence to every where.

Interesting way to live I guess but... seems to stressful for me

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!
Genocide has never felt so good. The fact that you can repeat it, and condition it to your liking, makes it even better.
I'm enjoying the loot explosions and developing my characters.

I am not roleplaying - its not that kind of game.

I don't think it would make a difference if the models for the loot-pinatas were made to look like my friends and family - i am not killing the pixels in effigy or out of some imperialistic racist urge.

I just want the lootz. Maybe I am being secretly groomed for some nefarious new world order without realizing it...
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Mythabril wrote:
Funniest is when Alva yammers about you leaving the master of ceremonies alive and how we're now responsible for the countless of lives being sacrificed while we go back in time to slaughter several thousand people every time we finish a pyramid.

Not like it matters the Vall Empire and almost everybody living in it died during the communion anyway. So from the present day perspective, we're only killing the dead. And then rob their graves.


Yeah its a guilty ride ;)

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LowBudget780 wrote:
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MrSmiley21 wrote:


Speaking as someone who doesn't give a shit about animal cruelty, and might even find it funny in certain venues


Oh wow we got a real bad ass over here.


And you think meat you eat comes from where? Trees?

Also to all that are offended by Incursion. Im from Poland. Currently my Nation and country is targeted as those who are responsible for nazi death camps - and thats a historical lie. Be offended by injustice in real world, change it and then games will adapt. Now you all are wasting your time and attention.
Last edited by de99ial#0161 on Jun 7, 2018, 11:49:08 PM

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