Is everyone enjoying rolepalying a genocidal plunderer?

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darkpoetcc wrote:

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We7efrur wrote:

I'm certainly not. GGG must be living under rocks to force players to roleplay the genocide of the native americans by the Spanish Conquistadors with an extremely thinly veiled 'Kill the Native Americans for loot' story line in 2018.

Yes, Yes, I'm a filthy casual and I'm sure I'll be pilloried for being a snowflake SJW, but just think for a minute what the present Incursion League is really portraying.

God have mercy...I am Native American: All your little tirade does is make me realize how entirely senseless most of the people who moved into our homelands really are, and how little SJWs care about how we feel (each of us, not one specific chunk of people) about anything.

Please...just go away. You do not speak for me or any of my tribe.

I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt that it was more joke than serious.

But it is a little funny (and sad) that some sjws manage to create issues in their own arrogance. The worst offender as of late was that drama over someone wearing a Chinese dress to prom. I don't recall an uproar when Curtis Tucker was running around with a chicken in a cage while in tailored Chinese garb in Rush Hour.

I mean, its nice that people are trying to give consideration to people other than themselves, but it seems some of those folk try too hard and make a fuss over nothing and yet remain completely oblivious to day to day issues they should be focusing on.

Let's be real tho, if the kid in the wheelchair didn't have a hot sister, I wouldn't even remember what happened in Rumble in the Bronx. Well maybe the guy getting stuffed into a woodchipper....

God yes, i absolutely love slaughtering innocent i come across in my journey through wraeclast, leaving destruction in my wake. We killed gods, what does it matter if we kill mortals? I'm not sure whats next level of power, now that we kill gods and travel in time to find more stuff to slaughter.

For all "culturally offended" by the lore of Incursion.
Let's assume that fluff of Incursion is something like that

"There has been found an abandoned Templar's laboratory, inhabited by monstrous results of old experiments. Because now the laboratory is too dangerous/destroyed, you have to go back in time, and learn how they were created, and/or stop templar's chief scientists. Then we can go to the lab in present, and fully recover knowledge, how to reverse all hideous transformations"

Instead of Aztec symbolism of Vaal, we have now nazi-like symbolism of Oriath.

Would that be okay?
Why yes/no?

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鬼殺し wrote:

You're sort of contradicting yourself here. On one hand, you want to point out that good guys and bad guys is a matter of perspective -- which is true. On the other, you're sort of ignoring that TencentGGG had 100% control over that perspective and chose the one that horribly simplifies the situation because it was convenient for them.

I hope Tencent isn't already doing that much of the driving, but you would probably have a better idea of that than I do. I wasn't considering the designer choice aspect of the two sides, just commenting on the historical balance. The convenience of reusing much of the vaal art assets makes business sense, but the "conquistador" play doesn't gibe well with the rest of the PoE story, and does seem lazy.

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鬼殺し wrote:

I never once said that the historical influence for Incursion was simple so I'm a wee bit insulted you'd throw those facts in my face; I said both I and the GF observed that TencentGGG had simplified the fuck out of it.

You're making me repeat myself because, like a lot of people here, you're facts-orientated and love to bicker the minutiae because it keeps things going.

That both parties had their evil aspects isn't minutiae. The sacrifices that drenched city streets in blood weren't minor details. The destruction of entire nations purely to ship out their gold and silver isn't a minor detail either. Minutiae would have been talking about how the priests were so used to eating human flesh that they developed preferences for the choicest parts (the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet).

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鬼殺し wrote:

TencentGGG themselves chose to make this simple and facile.

If Tencent is already calling the shots, then I've little disagreement that they would simplify content roll outs. If they were to push for a Breach II league, that wouldn't surprise me. Think of Black Friday promotions and how staid and predictable they are. Big companies are like that. Simple and predictable is usually better.

To this specific league - we have Council and Conquest supporter packs, but our only real role as exiles is on the side of Conquest with minimal lore supporting it.

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鬼殺し wrote:

accepting that TencentGGG are phoning it in now;

They could be, I just wasn't aware they were already doing so, or putting pressure on GGG to do so. It would match up with some of much of what I've seen in the corporate world before. The innovators are few and far between. The "improvers" who try to squeak an extra 22 cents out of every 10 dollars do most of the pushing and pulling.

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鬼殺し wrote:

TencentGGG had and has every chance to use their medium to do really cool, original things, to bend the lens as it were -- to subtly educate, even. As I firmly believe GGG did with the Karui. With the entirety of PoE's original premise, which was staunchly post- and thus anti-colonial.

The game's storyline hasn't always gone where I thought it would, but it is consistent on that aspect - even to the point of killing innocent Oriath townsfolk, yet not being able to kill the Karui running around trying to kill the townfolk.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Incursion is almost a complete 180 there, positioning the Exile as firmly on the 'invading' side, by historical precedent and influence.

If it were the beginning of letting players choose their own path in Wraeclast (side with the Templars, side with the Azmeri, side with the Vaal etc - AND have some in game RPG consequences, then I would be all for it. I don't think that is the case here though.

<snip of much I agree with>

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鬼殺し wrote:

Implications, DalaiLama, are not prophecies. They're not predictions. They're observed factors based on experience and education, and if you want to say that what Incursion as a chosen theme implies about TencentGGG is not worth discussing, that's fine by me.

I think what Tencent does will determine whether PoE remains worth playing - not because of any balance or pay or play options imo, but whether Wraeclast retains it's unique flavor. I was a bit bummed that acts 6 and 7 didn't explore more of Wraeclast. I do like the idea of revisiting Wraeclast in a different light -Indeed, the concept was the basis of my short story calling the burned out version of the world Shadowclast
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/69446

Though I had envisioned a monochromatic realm of twilight where even the townsfolk were turned against the exile, and most of the world was broken or turned to ashy wasteland. Now that I think about it again, the imagery of Shadowclast was probably inspired by Gygax's Sea of Death novel.

I do think GGG need to try and keep the storyline true to what they want internally. The give and take might be to sacrifice some of the voice acting. I'd much rather have a well scripted and cohesive story line backing the game than just a few quips that are voiced. They could still do the same minimal number of voice lines (that most players who ignore the story would expect to see). They could just write in the rest as they did before the days they integrated voice acting into the game.

The exiles already use so much discovered by the Vaal. It would make sense to let us ally with them and take vengeance on the temple raiders in a future expansion. Riding out in Karui war canoes and fighting through several decks of Conquest ships would be fun as well.