This is why social welfare fails.

"

erdelyii wrote:

What you are saying is quite different from what Khoranth said. You don't give a reason for the breakdown of the family unit, and they do. I read a Catholic understanding of sex and marriage as a very specific set of things that the Catholic Church dictates. These include no contraception, no divorce unless under exeptional circumstances, and the idea that women are ultimately responsible for Man's downfall (and sinful, except for Virgin Mary, who all Catholic women should emulate).

The whittling down of the extended family and all the problems that has caused can be traced to the Industrial Revolution, not Eve.

Your are correct except for the "women are the downfall of men" part. And the Blessed Virgin is an example for everyone, not just women.

And what the other poster said is what I meant overall. The bedrock of society is marriage/family. 1930 was the first time a protestant church declared that contraception was no longer a sin, that is relatively recent, overall, in history. Western Society did not start in 1930

"

erdelyii wrote:

...
The whittling down of the extended family and all the problems that has caused can be traced to the Industrial Revolution, not Eve.

I meant to address this and forgot, sorry. (TLDR at the bottom, of course.)

Yes, of course, the Industrial Revolution had a huge impact on the family unit. (IMO, more of a "shift" in certain aspects, but not necessarily a role that altered the basic "rules.") But, in today's societies, the impact of advancements, both tech and cultural, have an even more drastic result, IMO.

Advanced societies are suffering from population growth shortfalls. The prevalence of an historically defined "family unit" is shrinking. "Roles" in the family unit are dynamic and often unpredictable. Even composition is uncertain. Technological advancements lend themselves towards "unstandard" means of economic support. (I know - "non-standard" but..)

Yet, laws and social structures aren't catching up in what we often refer to as "advanced" societies. Further, support for members that don't fit within these traditional boundaries are falling behind.

If we look at something as simple as property ownership, there are too many problems to negotiate without serious legal counsel should, for instance, an unmarried couple with children find themselves in a situation where the primary guardian dies. Suddenly, what was a stable, if non-standard, family unit finds itself without a home and children being shipped off to a distant relative that nobody ever met...

Grandma gets old. There's no practical financial support for her, since what is in place is minuscule compared to her needs, her "family" either doesn't want her in the house or can't support her, since they all need to work two jobs to support their kids with no excess, and there's no pension to help her, since her husband entered the workforce after most commercial pensions were dropped in favor of a different scheme. What happens as this particular population does nothing but continue to grow, thanks to very desirable increases in healthcare technology and general longevity? (Though, even that isn't having an impact in advanced cultures as lifespans seem to be dropping.)

We've got "growing pains" when it comes down to what amounts to a revolution in terms of the "family unit." We're not catching up to these needs, especially when it comes down to eldercare, childcare, property ownership rights, commercial services, etc.. Even things as basic as "Insurance" have problematic notions that aren't catching up to cultural developments.

We have it much better than the factory-working family had it during the heyday of the "Industrial Revolution." But, in the larger picture, where we have acknowledged a lot of things like Human Rights, Workplace Regulations, Equality, Egalitarianism, etc.. We are not reinforcing our ideals appropriately and we're finding these changes difficult to manage. (IMO) In the manner of what is now fast-becoming the "unstable family unit" we're not catching up to societal needs. Shouldn't, if divorce is a common thing, these days, it be easier to actually be divorced, with the shift from dual to single parent be easier and shared custody laws reflect that? Errr... it isn't. It's certainly not any easier for single-parent, working parents, same-sex parents, etc, all of which are becoming more common.

We may be doggedly holding onto traditional family definitions or we may, because we are altering these, be doggedly insisting that the newer definitions are better in some way. Either way, the result is more instability we are not compensating for. It may be a case of society "choosing a direction and sticking with it" will be better than casually allowing for equality for both. At least, right now. We might not have the ability to so casually redefine the family unit as we think we do.

As a disclaimer, because this sort of discussion can get heated, I am for "what works." As long as our focus does, indeed, include healthy child-rearing values and social stability, it doesn't matter where that comes from.

TLDR: I agree with you, but I think we're seeing even more of an impact in the modern day than families experienced during the Industrial Revolution, especially in "advanced" Western cultures.

If we just let all the poor people die off instead of feeding them welfare every week, there'd be no poor people.

"

IMSilver wrote:

If we just let all the poor people die off instead of feeding them welfare every week, there'd be no poor people.

:D

"

IMSilver wrote:

If we just let all the poor people die off instead of feeding them welfare every week, there'd be no poor people.

At some point, they would come for your food. Then, there may be no more "you." Or, you might become "food." :)

Picture "World War Z" being "World War Crackhead."

(pardon the visualization, but there's the need for a strong point to be made)

They would come for you, fueled up on crack and spray-paint.

You wouldn't stand a chance.

That would never happen. The Catholic Church would do everything possible to make sure people do not starve, just like they have been for the last 2000 years.