This is why social welfare fails.

We have 58,000 homeless in LA. Used to have only 30,000 just 6 years ago in the so called great recession. It's doubled and unemployment is less than 4%. Because like Ronald Reagan famously said. (paraphrasing) Tax something get less of it - Subsidize something get more of it. So it's exploded. LA is spending $479,000 per unit building homeless condos (ridiculous huh? Thats govt waste for you) and still can't house everyone because welcome mat was laid out.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-rising-hhh-costs-20180511-story.html

California needs to review history why socialism fails, everywhere it's been tried or else we are done for. https://www.hoover.org/research/why-socialism-fails

Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep on May 20, 2018, 6:48:53 AM
Last bumped on May 24, 2018, 3:13:55 PM
You say socialism fails yet Europe, which is mostly socialism states, have caught up and in some case exceeded the living standards of the US in a mere 60 years.

Build of the week #9 - Breaking your face with style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_EcQDOUN9Y
IGN: Poltun
"
faerwin wrote:
You say socialism fails yet Europe, which is mostly socialism states, have caught up and in some case exceeded the living standards of the US in a mere 60 years.



yeah we just saw over 100 millions of deaths because of socialism in the last century, let's try it one more time shall we?
these deaths didn't occur because of the economical system...

Build of the week #9 - Breaking your face with style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_EcQDOUN9Y
IGN: Poltun
"
faerwin wrote:
these deaths didn't occur because of the economical system...



as a matter of fact... they did :3
"
faerwin wrote:
these deaths didn't occur because of the economical system...

And this is why you think communism can work if “done right.” Economy is not a zero sum game. There is not a finite supply of potential value that can be drawn from (and redistributed). There is a finite supply of value at any given time, but there is no limit to potential future value except for its potential. Only by creating value approaching that potential can you create more potential. By removing economic incentives you remove the rewards for creating additional value and reward people for merely existing. This is not sustainable. The only way to maximize value potential is to reward people for creating value. You need to store fat. Otherwise, the inevitable conclusion is consuming the fat ‘til it’s gone, then imprison everybody, torture them, and force them into slave labor.

It is still a question whether European socialism can be sustainable, but we’re already seeing plenty of signs that maybe it’s not (presently appears sustainable because it’s still in the process of consuming its fat). I’m willing to let Europe do Europe, though, because I don’t live in Europe and their success or failure is irrelevant to me. If they’re still successful a hundred years from now cool for them. I’m not willing to let my country jump on a sinking ship though, because Europe sure as fuck isn’t going to get us to Mars in the next hundred years. America will, and in less time. If Europe turns cannibalistic in that time, cool, America will fix that too. Panem is literally the best.

On the other hand, I believe socialism can work (as in, subsist, if not grow). Yet to be determined, but we may already be seeing signs of this, where scale is appropriate. Too small (single city) and it will lack the resources to sustain itself. Too large and the burden of balancing myriad needs yields too much risk nascent certainty of collapse. Certain popular socialist states in the EU may meet these requirements—a robust enough economy to subsist but not so complex by scale that it runs excessive risk. One thing is for certain, though, those countries are fascist as fuck; definitely not utopian for their victims. The only reason people appear happy is because only the happy ones are allowed to speak. The others are violently removed from their lives to rot away in a cell for however long wrongthink costs you.

TL;DR: Communism kills people because of the economic system. Parts of Europe are already likely heading down that road.
Devolving Wilds
Land
“T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.”
Last edited by CanHasPants on May 20, 2018, 4:30:48 PM
"
Aim_Deep wrote:
We have 58,000 homeless in LA. Used to have only 30,000 just 6 years ago in the so called great recession. It's doubled and unemployment is less than 4%. Because like Ronald Reagan famously said. (paraphrasing) Tax something get less of it - Subsidize something get more of it. So it's exploded. LA is spending $479,000 per unit building homeless condos (ridiculous huh? Thats govt waste for you) and still can't house everyone because welcome mat was laid out.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-rising-hhh-costs-20180511-story.html

California needs to review history why socialism fails, everywhere it's been tried or else we are done for. https://www.hoover.org/research/why-socialism-fails


These things have nothing to do with socialism... they have to do with economy. You are showing exactly why america is a lost country/lost cause. You put everyone in boxes before they even speak. Spreading propaganda before even digging into the material.

The reason the current economies cannot fully take care of others who need help is because the richest people will hoard, hide and stash away their money(with tricks, laws, bribes aka lobbying haha). So they do not have to pay higher taxes. This happens everywhere around the world. If everyone would be honest and pay what they should, governments would have alot more to spend helping people. It is simple greed that is causing these struggles.

Another major issue some countries have is they have no 'open' politics. Meaning there are one or two parties, or people who decide everything for everyone. In america, you can see it in almost every discussion, americans immediately call people left or right. Even when it makes no friggin sense. When your country's political system is stuck like this, and does not allow for any other voices, eventually time catches up and the country collapses. Because there are only 1 or two possible views for inhabitants of that country.
Many european countries have a more open political system, just about any new party can join in elections, and if enough people vote on them they get a chair/vote in government. If not, they will disappear. This allows for a country to be alot more flexible to be able to keep up with the modern times and new developments. Versus countries being stuck in their ways. Right now america is a great example, they drown out any voice that isn't one of those two parties. And those two parties control if a new party can even come in existance.

Totally detached from what I wrote above, and a more emotional view: I would rather fail trying to help people(refugees/survivors), than build a wall and go hide in my corner hoping they go away. Atleast I would know I tried to make the world better. *No pun intended with the wall thing*

PS: I sometimes get my reviews for tv shows and movies deleted because americans post that if you do not like something, it always comes with a political view attached. Or it is automatically racist, or liberal, or socialist or... etc. Even when I explain in precise detail why.

PSS: I'm a european, and I do not see things as black or white, left or right, or put thoughts in specific boxes. If something is hateful or racism or wrong, I will speak out against it... even when some people have their views so clouded(for whatever reason) they do not know what is what anymore.

PSSS: I have nothing against america or americans, but I use it as an example because right now it is so glaringly obvious it's political system is very very flawed and stuck in it's own two party system.
Last edited by sarannah101 on May 20, 2018, 4:54:12 PM
On my way out the door, didn’t read everything yet, but wanted to reply to one thing real quick.

It is greedy for people to assume that they are entitled to the fruits of my labor. Your propaganda is incorrect from its premise. Rich people do not hide and hoard, they invest and create more value. The amount of value they retain is irrelevant because this is not a zero sum game. Rich people earned their value by creating even more value. Whatever they retain is a fraction of what they’ve created. Value benefits people, not governments. Governments cannot create, they can only take and redistribute.

Edit: Returned to finish reading your post. Only further disagreement is that, yes, the US party establishment has problems; however, it is designed differently than other countries. It has essentially distilled all politics into either change things or don’t change things, more government or less government, etc. It appears very inefficient, but that is because the US government isn’t supposed to be all powerful like European ones pretend at. It is actually very efficient as a mechanism for The People to engage in the ways governance were intended to be engage in. Social pressures effectively turn levers that point government in doing one of two things: build more, build less. The problems that arise is that the federal government does more than it is supposed to, regulates more than it should, takes more taxes to do things States should do independently. But, at the end of the day, we’re still the United States and the Feds can kiss it if a state doesn’t want to play along. Case in point, a few years ago California was a day in court away from issuing arrest warrants for the entire FBI. If the feds didn’t back down, all of them would have been fugitives within the borders of California. Pretty fuckin’ cool, right?
Devolving Wilds
Land
“T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.”
Last edited by CanHasPants on May 20, 2018, 7:45:10 PM
You must be kidding, Europe is going broke. Look at the PIIGS. Then you dont even pay for your defense and rely on USA to protect you from Russia and jihadis. Europe is a has been dying. Asian and US economies are healthy and they dont have nonsense of socialism. Adversity makes you stronger so I don't expect this trend to continue forever tho. Just fun to see it all play out.
Git R Dun!
"
CanHasPants wrote:
On my way out the door, didn’t read everything yet, but wanted to reply to one thing real quick.

It is greedy for people to assume that they are entitled to the fruits of my labor. Your propaganda is incorrect from its premise. Rich people do not hide and hoard, they invest and create more value. The amount of value they retain is irrelevant because this is not a zero sum game. Rich people earned their value by creating even more value. Whatever they retain is a fraction of what they’ve created. Value benefits people, not governments. Governments cannot create, they can only take and redistribute.

Edit: Returned to finish reading your post. Only further disagreement is that, yes, the US party establishment has problems; however, it is designed differently than other countries. It has essentially distilled all politics into either change things or don’t change things, more government or less government, etc. It appears very inefficient, but that is because the US government isn’t supposed to be all powerful like European ones pretend at. It is actually very efficient as a mechanism for The People to engage in the ways governance were intended to be engage in. Social pressures effectively turn levers that point government in doing one of two things: build more, build less. The problems that arise is that the federal government does more than it is supposed to, regulates more than it should, takes more taxes to do things States should do independently. But, at the end of the day, we’re still the United States and the Feds can kiss it if a state doesn’t want to play along. Case in point, a few years ago California was a day in court away from issuing arrest warrants for the entire FBI. If the feds didn’t back down, all of them would have been fugitives within the borders of California. Pretty fuckin’ cool, right?


Rich people service others and are rewarded. Govt wants to take those rewards away in taxes. How fucked up is that? Very. Like Reagan said tax something get less. In otherwords productive people. Subsidize something get more. In other words deadbeats.

If I were president I'd give richest people a bonus because thats what people should aspire. To serve.

But they dont need it Elon Musk already has all NASA contracts and sending satellites in space for 1/10th cost of what NASA did.

They get it eventually.
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep on May 21, 2018, 12:43:54 AM

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