This is why social welfare fails.

Yes, rich people have to pay taxes too... just like poor people. They also have their fruits of their hard labor taxed. That is why it is called taxes.
You again show this black and white view, if it isn't a, it must be b. This is why the current US political system does not work, it forces you to pick a side, while throwing away new views. As it does not allow room for new parties/political views to form.

The comments written above me come directly from the current USA propaganda machine. USA is doing fine? ... How much debt were you guys in?
Europe does pay alot for defense, but it isn't a world power or as big as the USA. When you combine all the money the EU countries spend on defense, it isn't too far off. The money USA, EU, and other entities pay for the NAVO however does differ alot though.
Currently I am glad the US pulls itself out of everything. It gives the EU and other countries like russia and china a chance to fix things in the world, as the USA has mostly done so in an agressive millitary manor(sometimes justified like WW2). Which has actually caused alot of the current terrorist threats. It will also give those countries a chance to learn to stand on their own. The EU is currently already working on working out things the USA was involved in, and which we used to rely on the USA for.

I do agree there are good rich people who do not hide their money, and most do invest a small amount into economies. But the thing is, most money from rich people is hidden away so they won't have to pay taxes for it. Panama papers anyone, and there a thousands more of those places.

Anyways, I think we should just agree to disagree on this issue.

PS: It is better to pay taxes than to be in a state of war, where money is useless.

Social welfare doesn't fail in USA. It's very important.

Liberals tend to allow the abuse of welfare though, and yes california is case in point.

Part of what liberals do to get elected is hand out tax dollars for votes.

They can't do that legally of course, so they just promise the cash in the form of our taxes funding druggies, lazy street bums, generational welfare families, illegal aliens, obama phone beggars etc etc.

That's why cali has the homeless problem but it's not just Cali... really every big city run by a liberal, will have masses of lazy street bums demanding a free ride, regardless of the state politics.

As for socialism... someone mentioned europe.

Sorry but if not for germany Europe would be a basket case because almost everywhere socialism exists, it breeds unproductive lazy people better than anywhere else.

It's so refreshing we got Trump elected here.

Fewer and fewer people on welfare, because we don't have a president any more that coddles those who refuse to work, who can work.

No because of selective bias fools fail in making threads like this.

You have no clue mate, just biased as the most of america is but lacking the knowledge and understanding to know better.

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faerwin wrote:

You say socialism fails yet Europe, which is mostly socialism states, have caught up and in some case exceeded the living standards of the US in a mere 60 years.

1.) Europe is not socialist, it's capitalist with generous welfare

2.) The countries usually brought up as the aspiring example (Norway, Swiss, Finland, etc..), are also homogeneous, mono-cultural, mono-racial countries (high trust, low crime societies) with tight border control and restrictive immigration policies. Those who abandoned this requirements and flooded themselves with 3rd world immigration (eg. Sweden), are already struggling with their social system (strain on healthcare, prices of housing, etc..).

The US is too far gone into "diversity" & open borders, to be able to afford the social model of small European mono-cultural, mono-racial states. California tried to implement "universal healthcare" last year, but of course couldn't, because economic reality is a bitch. Destroying your productive class with taxation, just so that bums, drug addicts and illegal aliens could have free health care?... Not even insane leftist are that insane.

The European economy is currently failing because of a very sloppy implementation of the euro. It takes too long to explain, but the jist of it is that every country has its own laws for handling the euro and it caused some dumb loopholes involving credit. They’re still in the process of putting bandaids on the problems manifested by it. EU needs more union-wide agreements so that the euro can be treated pretty much equally across all countries.

Socialism can work, and it’s probably a step that should be taken before universal basic income. In many countries, there is government-funded low Income housing but the ones that work well aren’t completely free. For example, in Japan there’s such housing provided for elderly people on the condition that they take care of the surrounding area. This means pulling weeds out, taking care of plants, cleaning the curb, etc. It gives elderly people something to do, keeps the streets clean, and saves money compared to nursing homes. It’s a win-win-win program.

American socialism utterly fails because it gives people incentive to not do anything. When giving away something with socialist programs, you have to either give them incentive to work hard anyways or force it on them. American welfare incentivizes people to work just hard enough to stay inside the low-income tax bracket so you can keep the benefits.

The American equivalent of a socialist model that works is to add mandatory x hours of community service for all welfare programs.

That is because in the USA, asking someone on welfare to do anything is considered racist, by extremist liberals, and most Republicans are too cowardly to stand up to that nonsense for fear of being called racist by psychopaths.

And there are more whites on welfare than anyone in the USA, but that doesn't stop the insanity.

All I really want is for all the Templars and Morbos and such in this forum/the world to admit that what they're really after is permission to murder poor people.

Someone's house gets struck by a bolt of lightning and everything they have burns down, leaving them badly injured, terminally depressed and physically unable to work? UNPRODUCTIVE, OFF WITH HIS HEAD.

A company downsizes its workforce, lays someone off without warning, and that someone who was counting on a steady job he no longer has struggles for a time with trying to find a new job in a brutal employment market? UNPRODUCTIVE, OFF WITH HIS HEAD.

Brought up in a poor drug-addled house by poor drug-addled parents, burning with the desire to get somewhere and make something of his life despite his background, but barred from every workplace because HR departments require you to basically be an Ubermensch or have twenty years of work experience in your field before you so much as get an interview? No way to break out of the cycle because everyone is so concerned with only making efficient and low-drag hires that they're manifestly unwilling to give him the chance to break that cycle? UNPRODUCTIVE, OFF WITH HIS HEAD.

That's really all I want. People keep talking about economic impacts this and sustainability that and value-creation this and store-the-fat that, and never once do they seem to realize that all these welfare systems they're trying to abolish forever were intended to catch people when they fall. Can those nets be abused? Yes - so can literally everything else. Abuse is universal and is to be sought out and fought whenever possible.

But if you're going to campaign for the abolition of any and all forms of welfare, make it actively illegal to do things such as put up your brother when he gets out of the Army and has trouble landing on his feet or allowing your children to stay with you past the age of 18 because anyone who's not a busy little worker drone Creating Value(TM) in their corporate overlord prison complex of choice is a drain on society and must be purged?

At least have the balls to say so, eh?

Realistically, in the USA, almost all people on welfare are single parents (usually Mothers) and they usually do work, at least part time.

The only real solution, in the USA at least (I dont know the issues of foreign country welfare problems), is to bring society back to a Catholic understanding of sex & marriage.

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1453R wrote:

All I really want is for all the Templars and Morbos and such in this forum/the world to admit that what they're really after is permission to murder poor people.

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1453R wrote:

But if you're going to campaign for the abolition of any and all forms of welfare ....

I never said anything like that. In fact I'm for welfare and entitlements, especially for universal health care, pensions (decent lives for the elderly) and subsidizing most education. People who loose the job, should get temporary help, until they can find another job. But people should be also taught to save, think long-term and learn that there are no rights without responsibilities.

What "do gooders" fail to realize is that welfare only works when you use it sparingly. It only works when most people produce and only a minority is exploiting governmental help. It only works when you have a culture that is aware of this. And most certainly does not work when you open your borders to mass immigration, when you invite illegal aliens to flood your cities, when you destroy the family unit, when you let corporations ship all the work abroad, when you incentivize healthy people to do nothing, etc...

USA will never have universal healthcare, for example, because your society is broken beyond repair. Welfare works quite well in Europe because we still have national cohesion, a civilized culture and aren't yet a shit show filled with 3rd-world mentality, where certain cultures or races form a permanent dependent class, while others have to provide for them. Even in the fking Balkans - the asshole of Europe - we have more societal cohesion and thus a better foundation for a welfare state, than USA.

If throwing money at poor people would actually work, cities in the US, like Los Angeles would not be such stinking hell holes as they are, filled with homeless, drug addicts, illegals, gangs, crime... If socialist governments were able to fix things, people in Venezuela would not be starving and eating trash. But it does't work like that - you have to throw responsibilities and duty onto people, besides money.

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1453R wrote:

All I really want is for all the Templars and Morbos and such in this forum/the world to admit that what they're really after is permission to murder poor people.

You are PROJECTING like many LEFTISTS...! If it was up to you, you'd murder everyone who DISAGREES with your communist utopia like ALL communists before you! SAD