This is why social welfare fails.

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Crackmonster wrote:

I actually just studied this particular topic and wrote a paper on it for some school stuff randomly. In there i found a claim that surprised me about taxes in America.

So i might as well ask directly. Those of you that live in America, how much tax % do you pay?

I think I'm around 30-35% total. In the USA tons of taxes are hidden in other bills you pay, so it is hard to nail it down precisely.

That includes federal, state, real estate tax, county, town, sales tax, and every bill you have is also taxed: like for instance my cable bill has a tax on top of the bill and since I live in Cecil County I gotta pay a Chesapeake Bay tax in my water bill.

Plus gasoline is taxed but it is hidden, and that probably would add 5% total, if we had a math pro short it out

Welfare feeds millions of children, while you’re purchasing supporter packs there’s a family out there trying to figure out what to eat the next day. Shame on some of you... 3% take advantage 3% PERCENT...

So easy for some of you to talk BS behind your computers, hiding... I invite some of you to be transparent post in public.

"

k1rage wrote:

"

Rexeos wrote:

"This is why social welfare fails."

In Europe there are many social states and in fact it works very good. For example in Denmark (if remember well) citizens pay 70% of their wage to state. Difference in salary is 0.7 - 1.4. So doctor and hamburger guy can buy more or less same stuff and are rising children together and have same quality of services. There are more countries like that where people create country and no vice versa. Last time it was Island who put into jail their representatives from parliament because they put country into debt.

Socialism as thinking/mentality is rather flat and not hierarchic. They have values created from them by them and not exploiting each other and other countries, which is typical for hierarchic model (governments, religions.. cults overall). In that way people are not afraid and can live together, are not ashamed but are trustworthy, and take decision which are good for next generations.

USA type governments (or some type of religion) will most likely never understand what social stuff brings as most people in USA and similar countries lives in "survival" mode with debts and in hierarchic mentality (or fear of loosing some benefits before others in afterlife world...).

lol most people in the US live in "survival mode"...

thats one of the silliest things ive ever read

cant say I know of anyone living in survival mode lol

I said those who live in hierarchical model lives in "survival" mode. Nevertheless once you start to be independent, you will understand what am I talking about.

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solwitch wrote:

Welfare feeds millions of children, while you’re purchasing supporter packs there’s a family out there trying to figure out what to eat the next day. Shame on some of you... 3% take advantage 3% PERCENT...

So easy for some of you to talk BS behind your computers, hiding... I invite some of you to be transparent post in public.

Maybe if those parents learned some coding skills they could make POE farming bots and feed their families

We definitely live in survival mode in the USA. My family depends on me working to survive and have food, a house, electricity ect.

American has always been about living in survival mode.

Basically the only reason we have alot of people on welfare is the breakdown of the family structure.

It isn't laziness or lack of work: most people on welfare are working single parents (usually Mothers). The only solution is to return to a Catholic understanding of sex and marriage.

"

solwitch wrote:

Welfare feeds millions of children, while you’re purchasing supporter packs there’s a family out there trying to figure out what to eat the next day. Shame on some of you... 3% take advantage 3% PERCENT...

So easy for some of you to talk BS behind your computers, hiding... I invite some of you to be transparent post in public.

I guess this person is saying he donates all his money to poor families, unlike you supporter pack people.

He's such a nice guy.

Oh wait, he doesn't i'm sure.

No one is saying starve the children.

Why even create such a fantasy scenario for you to feel like you're morally superior on this issue?

I laughed hard reading your comment.

Comedy is a good way to wake up in the morning.

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Khoranth wrote:

It isn't laziness or lack of work: most people on welfare are working single parents (usually Mothers). The only solution is to return to a Catholic understanding of sex and marriage.

Because having ten children +- is going to be affordable for the average American family.

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erdelyii wrote:

"

Khoranth wrote:

It isn't laziness or lack of work: most people on welfare are working single parents (usually Mothers). The only solution is to return to a Catholic understanding of sex and marriage.

Because having ten children +- is going to be affordable for the average American family.

Just a note: (TLDR at the bottom)

I don't think that's what the poster was directly addressing, but even if that was it, there is some merit, here.

The "family unit" is the cornerstone of human society. Every society defines some sort of family unit and societies are structured to support that unit of people. We basically base our entire society on how it impacts "the family unit." That is, generally, the most fundamental component of practical human interaction, no matter how much we uphold the rights of "the individual." Individuals don't make babies and babies are important to our society.

I personally don't care about the composition of that "family unit." (Same-sex, multi-generational, group-marriage, etc, = Don't care.) But, we have treated this unit of people as important in our societies and when it breaks down, difficulties emerge.

There are, of course, differences in how societies define the family unit. Compare/contrast traditional Western family units with Eastern ones, for instance, or even models between European cultures. Extended or multi-generational family units are the "norm" in many Eastern Cultures, but are becoming almost unknown in places like the US, where "grandma get sent to the old-folks home." In the US and some other Western countries, the breakdown of the former traditional multi-generational household has caused a problem - Eldercare is "a thing" now in political circles and it is becoming more problematic. And, for Eastern societies that are adopting a more Western model, they're encountering the same difficulty as people begin to focus on demanding careers and begin a new family model that doesn't include "relatives."

TLDR: The family unit is a very important component of human society and whenever culture begins to change how that is defined, there are difficulties no matter how it was previously defined.

What you are saying is quite different from what Khoranth said. You don't give a reason for the breakdown of the family unit, and they do. I read a Catholic understanding of sex and marriage as a very specific set of things that the Catholic Church dictates. These include no contraception, no divorce unless under exeptional circumstances, and the idea that women are ultimately responsible for Man's downfall (and sinful, except for Virgin Mary, who all Catholic women should emulate).

The whittling down of the extended family and all the problems that has caused can be traced to the Industrial Revolution, not Eve.

"

erdelyii wrote:

What you are saying is quite different from what Khoranth said. You don't give a reason for the breakdown of the family unit, and they do. I read a Catholic understanding of sex and marriage as a very specific set of things that the Catholic Church dictates. These include no contraception, no divorce unless under exeptional circumstances, and the idea that women are ultimately responsible for Man's downfall (and sinful, except for Virgin Mary, who all Catholic women should emulate).

The whittling down of the extended family and all the problems that has caused can be traced to the Industrial Revolution, not Eve.

I think the basic elements are fairly well supported and more closely match Western cultural norms. There's probably a reason for that, since Catholicism has had more of an impact in shaping Western culture than most other notions. But, IMO, it adopts these values, more or less, simply because that's what most human culture had supported as a "stable" societal model.

The extra restrictions may simply be Catholicism asserting itself in placing values upon certain aspects of the family unit. It still, however, supports that unit rather firmly, even if it maintains certain requirements that are likely derived from its value-system. (Some of these restrictions are obviously archaic, but may still have some sort of religious substance to them as far as Catholics are concerned. The Church seems to me to have, historically speaking, easily been able to justify any number of requirements by finding a passage or three in religious texts and then rendering its interpretations. I am not commenting directly on its validity, just an observation.)

What I am saying, ultimately, is that you can find many natural, human, cultural models that directly support the same sort of "family unit" that the Catholic religion supports. And, IMO, this is no accident and no freak occurrence. It is simply what we have come to understand as the most stable element to base our societies upon.

Whatever additional restrictions and requirements that they place upon their definition of the family unit are their own interpretations, but they do not conflict with what much of human society has accepted as a definition of the family unit - They support it.

The common occurrence of divorce, the reduction of the size and extension of the family unit, "non-standard" family units, working parents, latch-key kids, single-parents.. The more variables that effect the stability and value of the family unit, the more problems one will find in societies that do not strive to adjust themselves quickly. And, when support shifts in a society to models of the family unit that are frequently unstable? Big problems.