Incursion Timer

You do not need clear speed meta builds for this! Hell some of the videos show blight doing this. Traps were showcased doing this.
Jesus people stop freaking out over a timer. If your build is so trash it can't keep up with traps or blight then you need to change it.

Ziggy said the timer has already been changed twice since the video footage so calm down lads it's gonna be fine.

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lurker14ownz wrote:

You do not need clear speed meta builds for this! Hell some of the videos show blight doing this. Traps were showcased doing this.
Jesus people stop freaking out over a timer. If your build is so trash it can't keep up with traps or blight then you need to change it.

Their own trailers aren't remotely reliable for judging this kinda stuff. They tend to show their stuff against outleveled/outgeared content or with dev cheats active or w/e (just look at how little damage they take even when being swarmed by enemies)

I mean, look at the bit with blight, you see the exile take out every enemy with a split-second of casting blight, even the rare enemy goes down in a heartbeat. Blight can be decent for clearing, but it's not *that* fast against equally leveled content.


As for traps: traps should have an easier time this league than they did in breach mostly due to some traps having no cooldown, it means you'll always have access to some offense if you bring one of them with you. Traps were a massive pain in breach because the cooldowns couldn't keep up with the amount of rush you need to be in.

That being said, the ones with no cooldowns are fairly low influence ones, with most of the real clearing traps still having cooldowns (and the new lvl 28 ones having much heavier cooldowns than even custom traps), so i question how well they'll be able to keep up with breach's level of mass clearing in the long run.


When it comes to incursion, we'll see. The teaser showed a timer that started off pretty damned low (10 seconds) and didn't grow by much when enemies besides rares were killed. Honestly it looks like the same pacing as a chayula domain, and that is a very very bad thing for build variety. Hopefully that changes a hell of a lot.

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sarannah101 wrote:

I disagree 100%

Your mindset is the mindset that destroys games. Just look at diablo 3, they still do not listen to feedback and are thriving(haha!). Excluding certain builds from content is never good for a game. Be it slow builds, fast builds, tank builds, or dps builds. Imagine if GGG were to make every skill and attack do 1 damage, all dps builds would complain as they would be worthless. This is basically the same. By saying you need to be *this* fast(timer based), GGG is excluding slower and tankier builds from content.

The goal of the game is to make the strongest character you can using the tools given to you. If you make slow char it better at least hit like a truck or else its just bad. We dont need to promote bad builds. I could make atleast 30 builds from get go that wouldnt have any problems with timer. The game is also built around having multiple characters. Use that option. If you know the lab is there, adapt to it, if you know incursions are there than again adapt. The options are there but if you decide to not use them its 100% on you. The biggest game destroyers are players that think they know what is good for the game but in 99,9% of cases they just want to push their own agenda like you do now. Ziggy is his video used a trapper with staff and had no problems with clearing. If you cant keep up with trapper you really need to learn to play, as much as i hate that phrase its the most fitting one here. I believe that even my worst build ive ever made wouldnt have problems clearing that (ice crash gladiator if you are curious). Excluding BAD BUILDS is very healthy for the game, it forces players to try different approach, it means you can fail. If any build can do everything that means the game is to easy and good builds would just stomp the content and players would get bored very fast. Thats the main reason diablo 3 failed as a game. You just cant lose there.

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kuciol wrote:

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sarannah101 wrote:

I disagree 100%

Your mindset is the mindset that destroys games. Just look at diablo 3, they still do not listen to feedback and are thriving(haha!). Excluding certain builds from content is never good for a game. Be it slow builds, fast builds, tank builds, or dps builds. Imagine if GGG were to make every skill and attack do 1 damage, all dps builds would complain as they would be worthless. This is basically the same. By saying you need to be *this* fast(timer based), GGG is excluding slower and tankier builds from content.

The goal of the game is to make the strongest character you can using the tools given to you. If you make slow char it better at least hit like a truck or else its just bad. We dont need to promote bad builds. I could make atleast 30 builds from get go that wouldnt have any problems with timer. The game is also built around having multiple characters. Use that option. If you know the lab is there, adapt to it, if you know incursions are there than again adapt. The options are there but if you decide to not use them its 100% on you. The biggest game destroyers are players that think they know what is good for the game but in 99,9% of cases they just want to push their own agenda like you do now. Ziggy is his video used a trapper with staff and had no problems with clearing. If you cant keep up with trapper you really need to learn to play, as much as i hate that phrase its the most fitting one here. I believe that even my worst build ive ever made wouldnt have problems clearing that (ice crash gladiator if you are curious). Excluding BAD BUILDS is very healthy for the game, it forces players to try different approach, it means you can fail. If any build can do everything that means the game is to easy and good builds would just stomp the content and players would get bored very fast. Thats the main reason diablo 3 failed as a game. You just cant lose there.

If i have a build that can clear everything except time-based events, then that should be considered a successful build. But constantly adding these timers to every new league effectively invalidatges that build. Tanky builds or just innovative builds are all destroyed. GGG gave us the tools to make a vast array of different and interesting builds. They're not the ones who said "gotta go fast or ur build suck bro". The amount of way to make different builds in this game shows that GGG doesn't focus on clear-speed, so constantly inserting timers for the sake of meta-slaves doesn't make sense in the slightest.

Some builds can't do uber atziri/elder/izaro and I think that's okay. It's the hardest available content and shouldn't be available to just anyone, and I wouldn't even mind if say the last incursion temple in higher tier maps had a timer. My problem is that they're excluding people right from the start.

In bestiary I did a ball lightning trapper. I could do everything, but slowly. Even high tier red beasts was possible although it took a great amount of time, and once I captured it I felt quite satisfied. By using speedster logic, the fact that my superslow build could do red beasts without problem means that is a successful build while all the speedster builds who complained was shitty builds, right?
Just because it's slow doesn't mean it's shit, and literally all GGG has to do is remove Incursion Timers, and everyone can enjoy the new league. It's as simple as that. Speedsters won't care about it anyway since they won't have any problem, and those of us who like to go a bit slower, don't want it anyway. So what's the point of it?

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kuciol wrote:

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sarannah101 wrote:

I disagree 100%

Your mindset is the mindset that destroys games. Just look at diablo 3, they still do not listen to feedback and are thriving(haha!). Excluding certain builds from content is never good for a game. Be it slow builds, fast builds, tank builds, or dps builds. Imagine if GGG were to make every skill and attack do 1 damage, all dps builds would complain as they would be worthless. This is basically the same. By saying you need to be *this* fast(timer based), GGG is excluding slower and tankier builds from content.

The goal of the game is to make the strongest character you can using the tools given to you. If you make slow char it better at least hit like a truck or else its just bad. We dont need to promote bad builds. I could make atleast 30 builds from get go that wouldnt have any problems with timer. The game is also built around having multiple characters. Use that option. If you know the lab is there, adapt to it, if you know incursions are there than again adapt. The options are there but if you decide to not use them its 100% on you. The biggest game destroyers are players that think they know what is good for the game but in 99,9% of cases they just want to push their own agenda like you do now. Ziggy is his video used a trapper with staff and had no problems with clearing. If you cant keep up with trapper you really need to learn to play, as much as i hate that phrase its the most fitting one here. I believe that even my worst build ive ever made wouldnt have problems clearing that (ice crash gladiator if you are curious). Excluding BAD BUILDS is very healthy for the game, it forces players to try different approach, it means you can fail. If any build can do everything that means the game is to easy and good builds would just stomp the content and players would get bored very fast. Thats the main reason diablo 3 failed as a game. You just cant lose there.

The main reasons diablo 3 failed is because it has no RPG elements, no builds except for pre-defined set builds and forcing players into greater rifts. Not because you can't fail. Not being able to fail is actually just a result of dumbing down the game with the three things I just mentioned. One of them you are actually advocating for.

Your post is confusing me, you do not want PoE dumbed down, but you are advocating against slow builds. Excluding builds(any builds) from content harms build diversity, in my opinion that is actually dumbing down the game. If GGG excludes certain builds often enough, we eventually get to the same dumbed down state the d3 builds are in: only a handful of pre-determined set builds work(for PoE that would mean only certain meta builds working).

Another thing that confuses me about your post is where you say the goal of the game is to make the strongest character you can with the tools given. While also directly after saying a slow build should work if it hits like a truck. That is a build made with the tools given... a timer on the screen however basically says: "NO, build failed!", even when it is not so. You are contradicting yourself.

There are many different types of builds, none should ever be excluded from content when build right.

Harming build diversity is dumbing down the game.

PS: I once had a slow build which did very low dps, could basically do all content as it was a damage sponge. Its high hp and leech made it so I did not even have to move out of most telegraphed 1-shots.

Here is a problem both of you have. You think that you should be able to do whatever you want and be able to do everything. The thing is you shouldnt. Dont give me that crap about "build diversity". There will be only a few niche, bad builds that will have problems with this timer but even those with few adjustments will be able to do it. Both of you made a build that was basically designed for boss killing and you complain. I consider both of your builds failures because they were lacking in some aspects. In the end it was your decision to hinder yourselves, game shouldnt be changed just because you refuse to adapt. The game encourages making multiple characters, whats the problem in doing so? Why not make another char that will be great for this type of content? The main difference between us is that i dont expect the game to be changed because of my decisions. I made a few builds that were total trash for lab, i knew it from the start that it will be the case but i didnt come here crying about it. Now you know there will be a timer, there will be some baseline on how slow you can go so why you are so stubborn to adjust your build? All of options available in a game are there for you to pick the best ones for given task not for you to do whatever you want. Make adjustments, improve and you will be fine. You dont need god knows what clear speed for that content if even a trapper had no problems doing it.

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kuciol wrote:

Here is a problem both of you have. You think that you should be able to do whatever you want and be able to do everything. The thing is you shouldnt.

I 100% agree. If a player wears crap, they should not be able to do all content. However, if a build is done right(effective) and has good gear, all content should be accessible. Even if that means a player will struggle a bit.

Slapping a timer on something, forces players into a dps build.

I also do not see how you can compare slow/tankier builds to trappers... I've made a trapper before and it was very fast compared to other builds I've made.

PS: I've said before that I doubt the timer will be very strict in incursion. But to me it is about the idea. When/if GGG keeps excluding build type after build type, eventually the game will only have a handful of streamer created meta builds running around.

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PS: I've said before that I doubt the timer will be very strict in incursion. But to me it is about the idea. When/if GGG keeps excluding build type after build type, eventually the game will only have a handful of streamer created meta builds running around.

Yes, apparently GGG makes more money from people watching other people speed run than they make having people actually play the game. Go figure...

Playing under pressure.