Energy shield is useless!

But see...both sides regen, both sides leech, and mod pools just adds another layer to easy calcuations, such as theoretical maximums like you did. These baseline differences you speak of are just numbers.

The ONLY one you listed that's incomparable is the Recharge part, which is what I'm saying in the first place.

CI was in a pretty bad spot for a while, but the revision to Occultist definitely provided a great route for CI. (Note that LL was never really in trouble; it was just expensive, which it kinda always was.)

Uaina's my CI-using build, and while, yes, she uses some sorta-legacy ES gear, she still has 9.5k ES in spite of using an Infernal Mantle (rather than Vaal Regalia) and I've still yet to rebuild her now that neither Chayula's nor Skyforth are remotely necessary for her. (should be able to pass 10k easy) She actually has more ES than she did pre-3.0 now!

She's definitely far from a "glass canon" and, as a firestorm build with some traps, (traps actually work quicker for white mob packs) she doesn't even HAVE to sit there to deal decent damage... But she can still sit and facetank some bosses while just spamming, and still out-leech them.

You could probably still do the same without spending that much in currency, though of course you might still wind up with a bit lower ES. It still makes her the second-highest pool, behind LL, and definitely above the HP I can get for RF without using a legacy Kaom's.

the difference is that with life I can get close to 8k, while having 24k armour + 14k evasion + 7 endurance charges + huge regen + way more leech with a ton of leech rate + life flasks + life on hit...

So when we say life needs specific gearing to get to 8k, yeah sure, but when it does it its significantly better than 14k energy shield.


the only thing that made es the 'best' choice was vaal pact, without that option es was actually balanced with life without any of the other changes they made to es. Its not useless, but with current gear outside of guardians its underpowered compared to life. With legacy gear you can hit 14k energy shield on an occultist and still have actual defences stacked on top that make it comparable to life builds in terms of tanky.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

the difference is that with life I can get close to 8k, while having 24k armour + 14k evasion + 7 endurance charges + huge regen + way more leech with a ton of leech rate + life flasks + life on hit...

So when we say life needs specific gearing to get to 8k, yeah sure, but when it does it its significantly better than 14k energy shield.

This! Without leech, the only way to recover ES is to either dodge attacks long enough(often impossible) or to use vaal discipline.

In my opinion 1 life = 2 ES in terms of eHP. Also in my opinion ES was meant to take the big hits, and then recover by manually dodging mechanics for ES-recharge to kick in. When they added alot of adds to bossfights, and many small aoe damages, this was also ruined. Making the ES recharge basically useless. **This is the reason why I do not mind the longer boss fights(mostly), as the old non-leech ES builds I build already made me learn to use boss mechanics.**

Like someone mentioned already, with the ES nerfs they should only have removed leech from working with ES. Every other ES related nerf was not necessary.

"

Rory wrote:

We've seen characters reaching over 25,000 Energy Shield while still having the damage output to sufficiently complete all of the content in the game, compared with the 9,000 Life that a very heavily invested Life character with perfect items could reach.

Yes the 25k energy shield were the problem of everthing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXM11X_V2l4

Now start nerf the life because 9000 is 9000 times more than enough.
-End of the joke.-



Here is your overpowered ES builds from before nerf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy19eI5bsoA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk-2eoj5fj8

And weak life builds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6Xol4j_5PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB8sAcS5xvI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCwTwxMN-Hw


In my opinion the too high ES builds problem would be solved with "Above 10k life and energy shield the increases 50% less effective." or something similar. Example if you would have 20k ES, then you would only 15k.



Guys i see a lot of you dont understand what is build diversity. If a keystone only useable with certain ascendancies is it a build diversity for you? Because for me not. If thats the case then create for all ascendacies a specific keystone... CI occultist what i saw mostly on youtube but somebody say trickster and gurdian is viable with it too. What was before? Everbody who want build on CI, only maybe those not which were far from it, but for ranger/shadow/witch and templar was viable with it. And now mostly not and/or life worth more with some chaos res.

That happend guys before 3.0:
https://i.redd.it/rkl7pbff7mky.png

After 3.0:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2008293

GGG call it balance... The only reason to nerf ES wasnt how powerful was it, but because they want more player to play what they prefer now... They have no shame and totally ignore what players wanna. Intresting, players wanna balance, GGG dont. Thats the story guys.

Why i always hated LoL was the same. There is no balance just always preferable builds/chapioms/items. Thats sh*t is the bussiness in our days.

"

ShinigamiKller wrote:

In my opinion the too high ES builds problem would be solved with "Above 10k life and energy shield the increases 50% less effective." or something similar. Example if you would have 20k ES, then you would only 15k.

You seem to want to nerf both ES and life as how they are now. There should not be a life nerf, and the previous ES nerfs should be undone, except for the leech working on ES part.

so we should all pretend that ES cannot regen (not recharge!) and having double the pool doesnt make any difference?

so it was ok that people could get 10k ES with 4+ slots taken by no-ES uniques and barely any tree investment?

it wasnt. current ES situation is playable (no longer BEST doesnt mean it cannot be used) and has its places. these places are limited - true - but why shouldnt it be this way?

not to mention that 'pool' size is very binary in this game - you get 'enough for anything' or you do not. pre-nerf ES values allowed for stupid things like facetanking unfacetankable and pretending it is skill.

it is no longer 'auto-win' easy to gear, easy to play, no worries playstyle. and thats a good thing - if there is a choice that makes other choices redundant - why to have them in the first place?


there are far bigger issues with this game than 'someone lost their auto-win choice and is upset' - state of 2h playstyle (melee and casters), movement skills in general, fortify + said movement skills, idiotic stat sticks and fake-dual-wield in general, 'xp globe gameplay' and lots of tech issues like pathetic game performance compared to how it looks like. poe with current visuals should require a frame limiter NOT dynamic resolution.

then there are skills and turds (kinetic blast is an abomination that requires a serious and i mean serious nerf)

after you fix that - then ES might be discussed. because right now it works, works well, has its place and most complaints are on the line of 'i want my uber power back!'

Current state of ES is unacceptable. There are a couple builds still making use of it but it's due to their ascendancy only and there are few skills you can use.

The best thing about ES was that you could opt to slash out on gear and take less on the tree to have more freedom with creating or tweaking builds, now it's just like life, no matter what you play your pathing is dictated by life/ES nodes and there is little room to play around.

I get that it needed some tuning but to just ruin it and force a life meta wasn't the right way to go about it.

"

sidtherat wrote:

there are far bigger issues with this game than 'someone lost their auto-win choice and is upset' - state of 2h playstyle (melee and casters), movement skills in general, fortify + said movement skills, idiotic stat sticks and fake-dual-wield in general, 'xp globe gameplay' and lots of tech issues like pathetic game performance compared to how it looks like. poe with current visuals should require a frame limiter NOT dynamic resolution.

then there are skills and turds (kinetic blast is an abomination that requires a serious and i mean serious nerf)

after you fix that - then ES might be discussed. because right now it works, works well, has its place and most complaints are on the line of 'i want my uber power back!'

Maybe it is better to fix ES before anything else is done, so it can take the new ES in account... everything you named, except performance issues, is subpar to entire builds/playstyles being destroyed. And it doesn't have anything to do with wanting "uber power back" as you put it. Many players in this thread that found the ES nerfs ridiculous have also said the top end ES should have been nerfed.

There will always be meta, overpowered and sometimes even broken builds but that does not mean those with less optimal builds should suffer because those should get nerfed. Which is why I proposed a diminishing return softcap for ES, this way the top end builds would be nerfed while the low/mid end stays untouched. This is no way warrants you saying that we just want our uberpower back.

Just because you single out one or two skills that are currently overpowered, does not make those more important than entire builds being disabled due to global nerfs. Like I said above, there will always be meta builds.

"

so we should all pretend that ES cannot regen (not recharge!) and having double the pool doesnt make any difference?

No it doesn't, ES is a different way to play than life. Besides regen life also has alot of other options to regain it fast, options that ES does not have. This is why the ES pool should be bigger. Right now ES pool is hardly above life, but with all the downsides of the ES attached to it.

The only thing these ES nerfs accomplished is shift the meta to life while destroying most ES builds. This in my opinion has decreased the state of the game alot.

guardian is an issue, guardians are still insane. I agree with the thought train that es seems to now be balanced around ascendancy choices like that, I was expecting a guardian nerf, instead we got what seemed to me to be es totals nerfed to make guardian amazing but not stupidly op, and that left everything that wasnt a guardian in the shitter.

guardian aegis and guardian regen are still monsterous defense options, but rly I think they should nerf guardian and buff es so that guardian remains the same as it is now and everything else isnt quite so shit on.

The ring crafts should come back, and not cost exalts, they should be 8c the same as the amulet, and the nodes should go back behind ci. I dunno why they were removed it makes no sense tbh given the benefits of low life.