Map drop rates are broken.
" I don't play in a party 99% of the time, a friend comes on now and then and we do a few maps, so no to that. Usually (until this past few weeks), I mained Warchief / Ngamahu's cyclone so not exactly meta Boom Boom go fast builds. Last league I played frostbolt totems a lot... stop making excuses. In fact, I do pretty much the complete opposite to your insinuation, I never 'rush', I open all chests etc. (Tho that was kind of amusing coming from an arc trapper, you 1 shot screen and insta phase bosses....) Last edited by Chalace2#1463 on Jun 29, 2018, 5:56:30 AM
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Total investment:
10x T11 - 1x T15 11x Alc - 10x VaalOrb - 4xChaosOrb(Beyond) - 4x Chisel - 11x Sac fragments Bare in mind I have no T16 map unlocked so it can't drop. (I'm assuming it can in a LvL 82 temple) Funnily enough, only 1 boss of the 11 maps dropped a map and it was T8. Also, no sextants were used, and no Zana mission was done.  Edit: So we are currently up 5 red maps. Now I will run 11 of those maps, with chisels this time. Same structure. 10x T11>13 (20% Quality + Alc + Vaal) 1x T15 (20% Quality + Alc + Beyond) Last edited by Chalace2#1463 on Jun 29, 2018, 1:42:23 PM
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2nd set done.
10x T11>13 (20% Quality + Alc + Vaal) 1x T15 (20% Quality + Alc + Beyond) Temple had a map room this time, however, it was 1 chest with 4 yellow maps in, so yeah.  So from this, we started with 11 red maps. Ran 22 red maps and 2 temples. Now I have 23 red maps remaining. That's more than doubled my red map pool by simply running 22 maps. Far from 'fully invested'. No thought was put into what the maps were, some are far better to run than others etc. Ignoring all the extra currency drops, including 2 exalts and 2-3 ex from 2 div cards which you can easily re-invest into better-rolled maps if you were so inclined. Using sextants would up this even more. I'm failing to see an issue here. Last edited by Chalace2#1463 on Jun 29, 2018, 5:07:31 PM
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Map drop rates definitely felt very frustrating until I hit above 100% bonus (probably never going to hit 140% like some people mentioned here).
I did have to purchase maps from other players in order to get to that point. I found myself purchasing the most maps around t6 to t11. Once I had all of t11 unlocked though it was a different story. To be clear though, I was rushing to try to get the atlas bonus above 100%, so perhaps it would have been different if I just took time farming each tier of maps instead. As for map & investment returns, I'll address it separately. Pure map returns: (getting maps on runs) In the majority of my runs, my pure map return is very bad. Running a t14 shaped vault (for example) and timing time to break everything would usually yield me anywhere from 0 map drop the entire clear to 2 on average. On top of that, these would usually be around t8-11 maps with the occasional t13. However, at least once per 2 full incursions (so 22 maps?) I would have an outlier where I'd get 6-7 maps AND a couple of t14s. Interestingly enough, even with 100% bonus, I've never gotten a t15 map to drop. Bear in mind that I never ran any t13+ atlas maps, so I don't know if that'd impact anything, although I do have 3 maps that are shaped 15s on my atlas. Map returns on my temple runs are usually okay. I would get at least 2-4 of the highest two tiers of maps I ran (i.e. if I did t14s and t13s during that incursion setup, then I'd get it back). I do find that most of the map return in temple runs aren't from the map room, in which I get like 2 maps (usually not even t10s) at best. (Disclaimer: I've never gotten the tier 3 map room yet, so not sure how that'd be). I've gotten more maps from the dusty charts in storage and from killing mobs. So yeah, if you're running just pure maps hoping for more maps, it's going to be frustrating for sure. I can see this being more of an issue in SSF, but since I never played it I can't comment on the rates there. Investment returns: (I'll divide down to currency and others) Currency drops: Unlike some of my friends, I don't have amazing currency drop rate. They mentioned that they can normally get back the cost of buying (and chiseling / alching) the maps by just picking up currency alone (usually chaos). I don't have that luck. Majority of the time I'd get around 1-2 chaos worth of currency back. (I normally run maps above t11 at 20% quality with quantity at least above 85%). I will have the occasional lucky streak where I get more than enough to pay for all the maps plus more, but I would say that if I relied on just currency drops and pure map drops I'd still be running t5-8 maps at best. Others: Now this is the part that gets interesting and how I actually sustain myself. I try to always keep enough unid'ed gears to vendor for regal recipe. On top of that, I always pick up weapons (like claws, foils etc) and armour (mainly boots) to ID. Usually, if I get a decent one (or one with semi decent rolls and I can craft something on top of it) then it would pay handsomely in the market. So by doing that, I was able to pay for the investment costs and get even more than I invested. Is it time efficient? No, at least not according to my friends that just runs around speed clearing the entire map without breaking everything, looting most stuff other than a few rares that "would have a higher chance of selling for a lot". But it's doable, and it'll get you on the right track to be able to ignore most drops and speed through a map later on. This isn't a game meant to be played just by "farming maps" and hoping for map / currency drop alone. It's not like D3 where you can just farm rifts all day by yourself and GG. If you don't at least try the trading aspect of it, then yeah, you're going to have a tough time. It doesn't mean you have to play with other people though, just that you have to at the very least make use of the vendor recipes. If you can then learn to buy items at cheaper price then reselling it for a profit, even better. TLDR version: map drop rates are horrible (particularly in the t6-11 yellow map range). Majority of times pure currency and map returns won't be enough to sustain continuous investment without other form of return. Take advantage of item drops and use other measures to generate income (for those that are not in the SSF mode) because that's how the game is most likely intended to be played to begin with. Temple runs help with the investment issues even without full clearing every room if you at least clear the key rooms. |
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" doing it the same way and now reached a point where i dont even chisel t12-t13,sometimes i use zana mods but not for sustain its for endgamegrind. it never felt this easy before to sustain high maps without burning currency (sigh burning currency i mean losing chisel/chaos and gaining other currency), the +2 to average maplevel for tempel is just ridiculous strong- while i find the special tempel itemmods intresting and fun the reason i really enhoy his league and might even finish the endgamegrind is the easy gain and sustain of currency and maps. i play ssf or if i opt out of ssf, i play semi ssf which means only currency exchanges and sometimes a specific map to kill something elder related. (i only allow myself to buy maps when i have atleast 20 maps of the same tier in my stash) |
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" Run hundreds of temple - it's be an actual statistic. Right now I see two 'not so bad' runs. Nothing more. Sorry. My personal experience far from your two 'not so bad' runs. E = mc^(OMG)/wtf
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" First set was Alc + vaal and still returned 10 red maps. Second set a bit more invested using chisels, returned 16 red maps. I'll also point out that it scaled heavily upwards. Going from 10x T11 to only 4xT11, 19 T12-15 at the end. So even discounting the temple, not that you should, considering the temple drops were mediocre for these compared to some (I've come out with 15+ maps on some runs). That's still a net gain in red maps with a huge tier increase. with barely any investment. What exactly is it you find wrong with that? These are normal returns. Of course it is only a small sample, but it still shows I can pull out any 11 maps and make a return easily, I literally doubled my red maps in a couple of hours without trying... If I was trying to 'skew' the numbers I would have run fully chiseled + Vaal + Zana with 4 sextants and elder influence. But I didn't. The whole point of this today was to show that even mediocre investments and casually running some maps for a temple will still net you an increased return. Heck, I didn't even pick the 'good' maps to run, I pulled out 11, and the 2nd set I used only 11 of the maps that dropped in the first round. some being terrible for map drops like Mesa and Colonade. |
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It's a bit of a struggle going from yellow to red, but once you get a decent start with 130+ atlas, sustaining isn't an issue anymore. I've only bought enough maps to get 158/158 and a couple sets of guardians to finish Uber Elder. Haven't bought a map for sustain ever since.
I run anything from T11 to T16, mostly T13. I alch and go every map. T14+ maps are chiseled. T15+ maps are vaaled. I make sure every temple is level 83. I sometimes run Uber Elder. That's pretty much it. At this point, I'm only gaining.  |
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" I'm sorry but if you are only getting 1-2c worth of drops per map then your filter is completely broken, or you are not looking at the big picture. e.g converting fusings etc. You make more than that running unrolled white maps... All I picked up in the examples above was - Currency alterations and above - 6 sockets - Maps - Jewelry (ID and vendor the trash ones) < probably terrible for efficiency but I enjoy it. - (small) uniques for Alc sustain < not really necessary, you get more than enough really. - Yellow jewels Last edited by Chalace2#1463 on Jun 29, 2018, 10:15:14 PM
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" No it works correctly you just dont understand how Atlas Completion works... 100%+ Completion does NOT mean you automatically drop maps +1 of the map your running.. it means you always drop +1 of the map the DROPS... Meaning once you have 100%+ completion its impossible to drop a T1 map except in Lab, Story Content, and Zana Missions. (Master Missions) This means if you drop a T12 map it will then roll T13 IF other map drop restrictions allow. All Drop Restriction still apply as well. Meaning the +2 for anything over 100% completions only apply's to the maps dropped from the boss. IT really helps to understand the mechanics first before complaining they do not work correctly... There is a fine line between Consideration and Hesitation. The former is Wisdom, the latter is Fear. Last edited by Demonoz#1375 on Jun 30, 2018, 12:15:18 AM
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