Chop Finale .... ROLL DAY~

"

kodr wrote:

just my 2cts as a low level scrub, I use alch orb on my items, because I don't find a lot of useful rares early to mid game (even bosses drop a sadly low amount of rares, like 0 most of the time...)

At least, with alch, I can get a rare with decent stats on an item with the right socket layout.

I completely understand the problem at high level, just wanted to share my experience on the low level front ^^

that´s a problem i see for new players too. If you are unlucky you will not see a rare weapon you can use in 30 or 40 levels.
In one of the 3hour races i did not find a single yellow weapon i could use and i found zero alchis (but 3 chaos orbs ^^). So i was stuck to a blue weapon for the whole time.
It may be changing if the bosses get their own "better loottable" and more anti 1-minute farming changes in the future.
In D2 Charsi sneaked into to bring in some usefull equip to players via enchants - maybe 1 or 2 quests per difficulty could reward players with a rare weapon of their choice here too.
Because upping the rare-droprate in lower levels would only lead to optimized chars grinding lowlevel rares to vendor them for chaos alchi regal etc. if the "profit" would be better compared to the "endgame" grind.

Honestly, I think that weapon enhanced damage and spell power should be entirely craftable with fixed results. These 2 stats are simply too game breaking (especially enhanced damage).

"

Faerwin wrote:

Honestly, I think that weapon enhanced damage and spell power should be entirely craftable with fixed results. These 2 stats are simply too game breaking (especially enhanced damage).
You could have the best mods all at a perfect roll but if there's 0 enhanced damage on your weapon, no one will want to use it. It's make or break for a weapon to have that sadly.

That would some kind of "destroy" or downgrade the most interesting itemslot in the game.

And as we are on it:
Most other itemslots are too boring atm. At least out of a caster perspective. Shoes, Head, Hands, Belts and Torso are just statholders for Quality/Quantity, resis and HP - but do not give you a single point of enhanced damage (beside uniques). That´s 50% of the items (5 out of 10 slots) that can´t push your damage - and that´s what ppl try to optimize beside finder-gear in most cases.
For melees you have at least a minor damage upgrade on every slot in the game .. be it str or +x-y elemental damage etc.

and if EPD was always an (the?)implicit mod for weapons (i speak here only for PD weapons, sword and all...)?
it's seem so logical. a magical/rare weapon without ED is something like a nonsense. it's only garbage.

back in old rpg time : you can have a +1 sword with no mod, or +1 sword with other mods, but you can't have a +0 sword with mods. more damage and hit power is the first mandatory power for a magic weapon...

"

Plethora wrote:

I get that if I want good items, not great, I should just buy them. The orbs are just so damn tempting to use! especially when i have a 5link.

That's an interesting remark :)
Those orbs are part of the currency system in PoE.
And instead of having a blacksmith to use our gold, we can use them directly.
Is there a way to buy every orbs in the game?

Maybe this "bonus" you have by using them was only meant for rich people, to play with their gold ^^;

"

Faerwin wrote:

Honestly, I think that weapon enhanced damage and spell power should be entirely craftable with fixed results. These 2 stats are simply too game breaking (especially enhanced damage).
You could have the best mods all at a perfect roll but if there's 0 enhanced damage on your weapon, no one will want to use it. It's make or break for a weapon to have that sadly.

That would some kind of "destroy" or downgrade the most interesting itemslot in the game.


Not really because only the spell power/enhanced weapon damage would be possible to upgrade. You'd need to get the other stats like any other weapon. They could even change whetstone to be as rare as GCPs by doing something like this.

They should just make other mods better. Right now some mods could have their value doubled, people would still ignore them.

Buffing bad mods is also a way to make rolls more rewarding without making it easier to get the godly items, (which will need the damage mods anyway).

I still vote for "incremental progress" system where you can see direct results of more time spent playing. If I play for the whole weekend, at the end I want my char to be slighty (even a tiny bit) better. This can be easily done with current POE system as well - mechanics for Horadric cube-like recipes are implemented, all that needs to be done is to create a huge list of recipes with guaranteed results (ranging from tiny to big, everything is just matter of correct ingredients).
if you had a chance, wouldn't you use recipes like "weapon + 3x chaos orb +3x weapons of the same type with 100+ ED =>original weapon with +1-+3% ADDED ED (nondestructive)" ?
(recipe is just an example, don't take it too seriously).
Such a system would promote trading of both items and orbs,would boost sales of stash expanders AND would make players play the game longer, because they'd see some progress.

(Inspiration for the recipes can be taken from D2 mod "ZyEl")

There are three ways to keep an economy stable over the long term in a game like this. You can have a never-ending grind where the best items are practically impossible to get. You can give items a set durability and no ability to repair so even the best items are broken and lost sooner or later. You can have regular server wipes. What I mean is that either the best items can be practically unattainable or if they are practically attainable then you need a mechanism to regularly remove them from the economy. This is how it has to be. Players need to be continuously losing wealth in some way because every second of the day huge amounts of wealth are being put into the system. Obviously people aren't happy about the concept of continuously losing wealth but that's just how real life works.

People should also remember that success in the game (running chaos effectively) doesn't require godly items. You can easily get by with good items and these are very easy to get with a reasonable time investment. Getting godly items doesn't allow you to accomplish anything that you couldn't before. There's no actual gain in power then and it's really just a status/bragging thing.

That all being said, the current state of the orb economy is certainly not where it needs to be. It can definitely be improved. I just think people need to temper their expectations.

"

Chris wrote:

Some random thoughts on this issue:

Several million rare items have dropped or been rolled in Path of Exile's beta history. The best ones are linked in game or on the forums by users for everyone to see or appreciate. These items represent the best rolls out of millions of attempts that people have examined and filtered. Rolling 1500 items will not generate items of the quality of those best ones.

If we made the currency items generate better results on average, you'd still have low chances of getting better-than-average items - it would just be power creep. The 0.9.6 balance is too easy already.

1500 alchs/chaos is 10x more than i've found in beta since I got in at .92 and i've been a regular player ever since.

And about power creep. Frankly, if I am unable to consistently creep up my power, I won't play the game for very long. What's the point? Power creep is GOOD. No one should play their character for a month+ without some power creep (aka improving their character).

This isn't 1995 any more. You can release new acts with better base items, a higher level cap, and new threats without getting retail shelf space.

People stop playing their characters when they stagnate.

Edit: Simulations are great, but do your simulations account for what is fun?

"

rabidrabbit" wrote:

Re-rolling with orbs is pretty much exactly like rolling crafted items (using perfect gems and low-mid runes). Materials are fairly common, but the odds are abysmal due to large pool of mods to pick from. Truly end-game crafted items are worth multiple high runes, which converts to amounts of pgems not unlike what you amassed in orbs.

godly items did not get traded for pgems at start of ladders or anywhere near the important / fun / non dupe inflated late stages of the ladder / games life past the original noobs that crafted them. dupes eventually dropped the value of high runes which provided an avenue to trade up from pgems through lower runes and ended up helping the game more than most understand, but hurt other aspects.

when you have items as rare as legit high runes (mirror), godly crafts (pgems, poe rolls), and godly super rare legit uniques (wf , gf, etc), they dont get traded for pgems(craft orbs), they get traded for other super rare currency or in more cases ($USD).

dupes somewhat created a bridge to go from 1 to the other. dupers actually did a very good job at sustaining it. they didnt flood it until much later, and kept the prices high. these were not dumb people. poe at the moment has no bridge and has no high currency other than mirror. thats my biggest point that im trying to make.

if orbs are astronomical low % to roll same item, it costs astronomical amounts to buy. hopefully the new orbs comming will hold more value and rarity. otherwise i dont see mirror/godly being traded but sold if game gets big.

i understand orbs = pgem rolls, what im saying is d2 had runes above that to pay for higher items / hold more value. a step up in currency if you will.

"

rabidrabbit" wrote:

Rune words post-1.11 were just a separate system that made most other weapon/shield/armor slot items obsolete by giving ridiculous guaranteed mods like 300%+ ed or 50% ias.

same situation here. the system by original design would have been bad for the game and would have lead to eventual buff of rune drops. did you play 08-.11? 1 legit zod from million players in months? thats 1 botd in entire world. you think it got traded for pgems? or would have ever been traded for anything less than other super rare high runes / godly items? it went large $USD. as did first wf / gf both well over $1,500USD from scale being so high.

the rune words get taken out of context of their intended place in the game. they were meant to be elite years worth of playtime, but ended up being the norm. that both destroyed pgem craft and helped the whole game at the same time, by giving everyone that put in time access to them. how do you balance that? a gradual increase in worth w/o going to astronomical odds?

is a complicated debate cause of outside influence on d2's system and different time periods yielded different results.

pgems - low/mid runes - high runes = godly

alch/chaos/gcp/exalted -----------------------mirror/godly

thats what the 2 look like atm.

"ill trade you my zod for your jah/ber. i really need an enigma but have no use for a botd."

"alright, sure ill do that"

pretty much same rarity + value.

"ill trade you my 40 exalted (lotto chances to make a very high end item godly thats extremely hard to find the 20 bases to use on and has very low chance of success) for your mirror (any godly rare in game 100%, or your 210%/ias storm bow)

"no thanks"

rarity might be somewhat close, but value / usability is way way off.

im actually 100% against mirror even being in the game lol =/

what about level gaining crafting orbs via vendor trade in?

10x chaos orbs = level 2 (chaos2)

10x chaos2 = chaos 3

each having a step up with ed/sd mod guarantee that bumps up mod lvls per level and stop at occultist / bloodthirsty.

i.e. (havent checked lower ed mods, just guessing)

2x chaos = 1x chaos 2

100% chance to atleast roll 30%ed + 30ed/acc but has chance to roll higher.

10x chaos 2 = 1x chaos 3 (20chaos)

100% chance to roll atleast 100%ed +40ed/acc but has chance to roll higher.

10x chaos 3 = 1x chaos 4 (200chaos)

100% chance to roll bloodthirsty + 50ed acc but has chance to roll higher.

a system like that would add alot of depth and even associate better value understanding to items for newer players.

could do the same even for exalted. could also assign armor values like rarity / quantity / hp for different levels of the orbs.

gives access to atleast some guaranteed progression at a set price devs are happy with, and still leaves godly out of the equation.

just another idea.