Do people want this game as slow as Titan Quest?

GGG moved away from using fear and danger as environmental effects.

Who currently remembers that time when we feared going for piety in merciless. When you where actually hesitant to enter that place.

It had Cole, which could be the end of your run.
It had titty bitches coupled with vulnerability whippers that would swiftly end even the most prepared exiles life.

And at the end of all that misery and fuckery it had piety that could freeze-lock you, triple shock stack you and we didn't have remove bla bla potions.

All of that gave the scenery and the environment impact and meaning, depth.

Nowadays you'll be damned if you even find some people who actually know the names of the new bosses introduced. There is no respect for the content.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

The_Scourge wrote:

But this was the winner for acuity. GGG TRIED to give players a reason to slow down when they introduced the Labyrinth.

I disagree. Maybe the lab was an attempt to force players to slow down, by adding traps. They have no reason to want to slow down, as movementspeed still is the way to go through the lab. I don't strive for ultra clear speed builds. never have, never will - and I hate the lab with a passion, and believe that the whole place makes PoE a worse game.

Are there more reasons to stop and pick up loot in the lab? More reasons to identify items dropped in the lab? Good reasons to interact with the environment? You ignore everything in the lab the same way as all other places, unless you're going for a full key run; then you just look up today's map and rush. Still ignoring everything else.

I miss some fine tuning when it comes to vedoring (is that a word?) gear to NPC's and maybe some more vendor recipes. More/better reasons to interact with what's already there. The game is beautiful, it's just a shame you're better off ignoring most of it.

"

BossOfThisGym wrote:

The clear meta would of evolved regardless of FFA, it's not like you only want/need to go fast in a group setting.

You've missed the point here. I'm not going to argue whether or not it would have evolved, because we'll never know, but the point I made was that the game entire, not just party play, was changed drastically when FFA-only loot was removed. Balance decisions that affected everyone resulted from that change, because it was the moment melee lost any attraction outside of solo play.

GGG wanted their cake and to eat it too: they always said they wanted PoE to both a solo game and a party game. I don't think anyone really bought that one at any point. You just can't balance a game this complex for both, not when the power of a party is far greater than the sum of its parts. PoE was probably always going to be a solo game where partying was less about coordination and more about just adding damage, and maybe more loot. But they tried anyway, and as I said in another post long ago, the net result is most effective solo players behave like a typical RPG party now. The amount of AoE a player can output is nuts, and then are totems, mirage archers, minions, etc. If you break down just how much destruction a single click in PoE can output, you'd probably be able to allocate that to an entire party's set of actions in any other game. It's not that PoE can be soloed or partied equally, it's that a single player is a party, and a party of that is just...chaos. Beautiful, obliterating chaos, but chaos nonetheless.

The only thing keeping that potential chaos in check was FFA loot. You had to choose between being a beast of AoE destruction on the fringes, or a tank in the thick of it with first grabs at the loot. With that gone, why party? There's no tension, no 'race' to the loot. Your engine of long-range devastation can pick up whatever's theirs in good time. BORING. I know, we'll give them more loot. Wait, they're ignoring most of it? Ummm...what if we let them filter it out then? Easier than trying to balance it at this point. Let the players be the boss of their own game. Yeah! Everyone wins.

Loot tension was one of the cornerstones of PoE and the removal of FFA-only loot killed it. People 'hated' it obviously, but I don't think its removal did the game any good. Perhaps it was a coincidence but quite a few people I knew in CB quit around that time. I stopped playing in parties after FFA went away. Not because I'm a greedy shit but because I liked that the game had that element of sanctioned need vs greed balance. It's my style of PvP, and in turn it gave people a chance to be magnanimous in parties by sharing. If someone didn't share, you didn't play with them.

Removing FFA pleased selfish players, who just wanted what was theirs; the same idiots who think that they 'own' Cadiro because they've never experienced FFA. GGG removing FFA as the only loot method just showed selfish, self-centred players if they bitch enough GGG will cave, against their own wishes. Even if the players are wrong. Which they can be. Which they often are.

OTOH if GGG had had more confidence in their work there's every chance PoE wouldn't have been free to play, and that'd be a whole different scenario. The game could be dead by now. PoE2 could be a thing. Chris Wilson might actually have been able to keep a regular sleep schedule (but probably not). Suffice to say, GGG caving is a rare thing but when it happens, it affects everyone and everything related to PoE, not just the immediate targets of the ensuing changes.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

The_Scourge wrote:

But this was the winner for acuity. GGG TRIED to give players a reason to slow down when they introduced the Labyrinth.

I disagree. Maybe the lab was an attempt to force players to slow down, by adding traps. They have no reason to want to slow down, as movementspeed still is the way to go through the lab. I don't strive for ultra clear speed builds. never have, never will - and I hate the lab with a passion, and believe that the whole place makes PoE a worse game.

Are there more reasons to stop and pick up loot in the lab? More reasons to identify items dropped in the lab? Good reasons to interact with the environment? You ignore everything in the lab the same way as all other places, unless you're going for a full key run; then you just look up today's map and rush. Still ignoring everything else.

I miss some fine tuning when it comes to vedoring (is that a word?) gear to NPC's and maybe some more vendor recipes. More/better reasons to interact with what's already there. The game is beautiful, it's just a shame you're better off ignoring most of it.

You're splitting hairs between 'forced to slow down' and 'make them want to'.

But yes, even it is still a race. It's too late now. This is what PoE is. This discussion is a waste of time. Not discussing it with you per se, just the whole fucking thing. Want slower, more measured play? Play something else. End of.

"

Boem wrote:

GGG moved away from using fear and danger as environmental effects.

Who currently remembers that time when we feared going for piety in merciless. When you where actually hesitant to enter that place.

It had Cole, which could be the end of your run.
It had titty bitches coupled with vulnerability whippers that would swiftly end even the most prepared exiles life.

And at the end of all that misery and fuckery it had piety that could freeze-lock you, triple shock stack you and we didn't have remove bla bla potions.

All of that gave the scenery and the environment impact and meaning, depth.

Nowadays you'll be damned if you even find some people who actually know the names of the new bosses introduced. There is no respect for the content.

Peace,

-Boem-

Part of my rant up there involved talking about how of all my experiences in PoE, nothing comes close to that first time Hailrake wrecked me. Repeatedly. And I think, even now, that was good. That made me rethink my approach. To hesitate. To consider.

But it's pointless to argue about it because we have all the gear, all the skills, and the experience to trivialise pretty much everything given sufficient time. We cannot go back to those days. Not with PoE. Not when so many current players never experienced it that way. And frankly those days didn't even last very long. The moment we had twitch integration the sense of fear and danger was gone. All people had to do was watch a far superior player trivialise it and they just followed suit, give or take.

A PoE where copying the meta is either difficult or impossible certainly would be interesting. SSF is as close as we get, but the game isn't balanced with SSF in mind, so it's really only half the equation. If that.

"

The_Scourge wrote:

It's too late now. This is what PoE is.

That's the boring, political answer. The square answer.

It's too late to "physically" slow down the game, I agree. But it's never too late to (in some way) tune the rewards for players choosing to interact with what's out there. They can even start adding more uniques with movement speed cap, adding higher offensive or defensive stats than other uniques. More vendor recipes for people choosing to pick up rares. Higher vendor rewards for certain affixes on rares - maybe based on affix tier?

Nothing they can do? Meh...

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

The_Scourge wrote:

It's too late now. This is what PoE is.

That's the boring, political answer. The square answer.

It's too late to "physically" slow down the game, I agree. But it's never too late to (in some way) tune the rewards for players choosing to interact with what's out there. They can even start adding more uniques with movement speed cap, adding higher offensive or defensive stats than other uniques. More vendor recipes for people choosing to pick up rares. Higher vendor rewards for certain affixes on rares - maybe based on affix tier?

Nothing they can do? Meh...

it's the I've been doing this since closed beta and it's only gotten worse over five years and oh yeah I have more feedback posts here than anyone by a fucking *mile* answer.

I'm a little insulted you'd even imply I'm taking the easy way out here. Don't do that. I do not deserve it.

They need to take a major step back and rethink the balancing, and pacing of the game.

We have no monster database about what damage and skills they use so when we die we are left asking 'wtf'

Others have mentioned but the monster balance is way out of whack 99% are easy then some bosses of the same areas are way over tuned.

The pacing of the game increased exponentially by the ridiculous power creep+removal of reflect for 3.1. It is too fast and NOT fun. Especially joining a farming party and there's the qotf glass cannons wander going nuts and solo clearing far ahead of you and your like...why did I make a tank if there's no need for a tank in party play.

Also four years ago we never had any patching update issues , major latency issues, FPS dropping issues, etc. along those lines. The game had a reputation for being practically flawless (when desync was fixed and this was still the case the game was literally heaven). I feel like they pushed too much content out too quickly while neglecting this.

Finally I notice on the forums, reddit, and in game the community has gone downhill. in the past there was rarely anybody insulting others players intelligence on the forums and when it did happen others would step in and shut it down quickly. Now it seems its happening all the time. Not sure if it has to do with the game being more popular / the xbox launch but this game also used to be known for having the best community around, that is definitely not the case anymore.

-link

They need to take a major step back and rethink the balancing, and pacing of the game.

We have no monster database about what damage and skills they use so when we die we are left asking 'wtf'

Others have mentioned but the monster balance is way out of whack 99% are easy then some bosses of the same areas are way over tuned.

The pacing of the game increased exponentially by the ridiculous power creep+removal of reflect for 3.1. It is too fast and NOT fun. Especially joining a farming party and there's the qotf glass cannons wander going nuts and solo clearing far ahead of you and your like...why did I make a tank if there's no need for a tank in party play.

Also four years ago we never had any patching update issues , major latency issues, FPS dropping issues, etc. along those lines. The game had a reputation for being practically flawless (when desync was fixed and this was still the case the game was literally heaven). I feel like they pushed too much content out too quickly while neglecting this.

Finally I notice on the forums, reddit, and in game the community has gone downhill. in the past there was rarely anybody insulting others players intelligence on the forums and when it did happen others would step in and shut it down quickly. Now it seems its happening all the time. Not sure if it has to do with the game being more popular / the xbox launch but this game also used to be known for having the best community around, that is definitely not the case anymore.

-link

"

link1313 wrote:

They need to take a major step back and rethink the balancing, and pacing of the game.

We have no monster database about what damage and skills they use so when we die we are left asking 'wtf'

Others have mentioned but the monster balance is way out of whack 99% are easy then some bosses of the same areas are way over tuned.

The pacing of the game increased exponentially by the ridiculous power creep+removal of reflect for 3.1. It is too fast and NOT fun. Especially joining a farming party and there's the qotf glass cannons wander going nuts and solo clearing far ahead of you and your like...why did I make a tank if there's no need for a tank in party play.

Also four years ago we never had any patching update issues , major latency issues, FPS dropping issues, etc. along those lines. The game had a reputation for being practically flawless (when desync was fixed and this was still the case the game was literally heaven). I feel like they pushed too much content out too quickly while neglecting this.

Finally I notice on the forums, reddit, and in game the community has gone downhill. in the past there was rarely anybody insulting others players intelligence on the forums and when it did happen others would step in and shut it down quickly. Now it seems its happening all the time. Not sure if it has to do with the game being more popular / the xbox launch but this game also used to be known for having the best community around, that is definitely not the case anymore.

-link

Nobody gives a fuck about your slow pace gaming LOL

Yo who the fuck makes a tank in a ARPG this ain't no mmo foo the fuck