Just blew 60c for 2% movement speed

Guys, stop feeding the troll. His complaint is just pathetic.

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Vresiberba wrote:

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xpmrz wrote:

1. You can't apply the law of average to things like crafting. In crafting, either you succeed, or you don't.

Absolutely not. You can't fail at applying a 1-5% movement speed mod on a belt. You'll win every time, every time. Your win is the random number ranging from 1 to 5, every time. You will never get a zero, you'll either get a 1, a 2, a 3, a 4 or a 5. This is FIVE different and separate outcomes that will occur EVERY TIME you click the button. 5 possible outcomes at each try, costing 20c each, is 100. One Hundred!

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xpmrz wrote:

As pointed above, the relative prices of currencies are not specified by GGG, rather by the relative perception of what is worthy imposed by the players.

Yes, and like I said, my issue isn't with the community settled conversion rates between one currency item and another, this is settled between us, the players. What isn't settled by the players, the community, us, is how much a 2% movement speed craft costs. Do you think 5% movement speed on a belt is worth 100c? I keep asking you guys but no-one is answering. Well, do you?!

You seem to misunderstand my points. Let me analyze your claim more closely. Your reasoning is:

" There are 5 possible outcomes: 1,2,3,4,5, each equally likely, averaging 3% ( mind you it is 3%, not 2%, since we count from 1, not 0, but this is a minor detail which I can ignore). Each try costs 20 chaos. Therefore the expected cost for each % movement speed is 20/3=6,6 chaos."

We take a step back to inspect whether this statement makes any sense. Here are the possible interpretations:

1. It means that on average, to have 5% ms I have to pay 6,6*3=19,8 chaoss. => wrong, 5 happens 1/5 of the times, meaning you have to roll on average 5 times to get a 5, or you have to pay 20*5=100 chaos to get it.
2. It means that the cost of each % ms is on average at 6,6 chaos, capped at 5%. => wrong, to have even 1% ms, you have to try one time at least, so you have to pay at least 20 chaos.
3. It means that if you try to craft it an infinite amount of time, and then you sum the results up, take the cost and divide it by the sum, you have 6,6. => yes, technically. The thing is, if this is your interpration, it means... nothing. Because:
a) you stop at the moment you have 5%. You have no reason to continue.
b) it doesn't affect your decision to use this craft or not. Because the number you want is the expected amout of chaos you have to pay to get a certain result, which this number bears no information about.

The main difference is in other game of probabilitic nature, your returns can be accumulated/ kept, while in this case, a new craft would replace the old result. Admittedly, this makes the cost even exponentially higher, but this certainly points out a logical flaw in your argument. My choice of the word "succeed" implies the outcome you aim for. I didn't mean that you can fail a craft a get a 0.

The second point: if you agree with me about the volatility of the currency, then you can't associate 100 chaos to a fixed amount of value itself. While the unit of measures itself is subjected to change, the quantity you are trying to measure doesn't change. So 5% ms worth 100 chaos ? yes, does it mean it is too costly? Not when each chaos is worth 1 scoll of wisdom ( this is a hyperbole, of course ). When the developer set 1 try = 1 divine orb, you can't change it to 1 try = 20 chaos orbs, because currency is volatile. That's my point, I hope you understand that.

The third point: You say that, the price, as it currently stands, is too costly. That is exactly the point of min/maxing and diminishing return. The first % ms can be very cheap, buf if you want to perfect your build, you have to pay much more. You can't expect to have a linear character development, because there isn't simply enough content in the game to support that.

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Vresiberba wrote:

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xpmrz wrote:

An analogy: if the Mona Lisa painting can be sold at 100 million dollar today, should Da Vinci have felt bitter that he sold it underpriced?

Of course he should, wouldn't you? Seriously, wouldn't you be juuust a little bit salty if what you just described, happened to you? You do realise that I'm not your enemy here, right. rectifying what I think is an error, is not going to affect you if you don't agree or won't be affected.

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xpmrz wrote:

No, because value is relative.

It is. So do you agree, and can you please break the pattern and for once answer; do you think 5% movement speed is worth 100c? No-one has answered. Will you be the first?

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xpmrz wrote:

You seem to underestimate the impact of movement speed on a build. As someone has pointed out, after a certain point, the main limiting factor for the clear speed of a build is a movement speed.

Nah, I'm not 'underestimating' anything, actually. I do see the value of having your 40% movement speed increased to 42%, but if the previous 40% cost me a total of 1c through trading, is it honestly reasonable to charge 20c for another 2% through a crafting mechanic that doesn't even explain what the cost is?

No one in the Da Vinci time would be willing to pay him the equivalent worth of money for those paintings. And Da Vinci certainly can't live long enough to wait to sell the painting at the present time. He thus has no reason to be salty. The price of the paintings are different and appropriate for each era, based on the subjective perception of the buyers. These things can't be easily transfered.

On your second point, I have answered above. For me, it's not worth to pay 100 chaos for 5% ms, because I haven't met the ceiling of my char yet. I have better investment of my chaos else where to achieve the same power jump. But once I reach a certain level of character development and the diminishing return kicks in, then it worths, because I simply don't have much to upgrade from.

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Aynix wrote:

Guys, stop feeding the troll. His complaint is just pathetic.