New Shaper/Elder mods are actually great for game's economy/health

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robmafia wrote:

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k4n3 wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

Yeah, the main problem of Shaped/Elder rares is that their mods are too good for some builds, and those builds already were strong!
Also, their drop is far too low. 1 item per 2 alched maps? Seriously? Why they should be so damn rare?

If their drop were higher then they would be truly overpowered.

*facepalm*

because rarity dictates if something's OP or not. /s

Forgive me my mental shortcut - what I meant is that if the best bases of highest ilvls were common much more people would have them and that perhaps wouldn't be good. Now you need to invest time and currency if you want to craft the best ones since dropping a good rolled one is extremely uncommon.

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robmafia wrote:

*facepalm*

because rarity dictates if something's OP or not. /s

Yes, of course it does.

Disfavor having 600 pDPS doesn't mean it is OP. It would OP if it was a 1c unique, but it isn't.

About off-handers: I'd say it is a problem with dual wielding in general. There is very little reason to actually use both your weapons, when you can just one that is well rolled and another stat-stick for cheap. Also, these added mods could be a little bit rarer (or less powerful). :V

That said, this is just one of many other mods that can be rolled.

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Disfavor having 600 pDPS doesn't mean it is OP. It would OP if it was a 1c unique, but it isn't.

so it's not... stats/usefulness/etc that determine what's OP or not. it's.... rarity. got it.

so the new unique abyssal belt? i guess it's crap, since it's common and cheap. who cares if it's better than mirrored belts on standard, right?

who cares about dps or defenses? that literal one-of-a-kind shav's without the chaos (dmg doesn't bypass es) mod? i guess it's the most OP item in this game.

fun fact: power is determined by the item's relative power... not rarity.



and this talk about bases being soooo scarce is a joke. as if:

1. ilvl 7x mods aren't also OP
2. it's so hard to get high ilvl mods, anyway. especially since maps can be vendored all the way up, now...

i've read a lot of dumb things, this is up there.

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robmafia wrote:

who cares about dps or defenses? that literal one-of-a-kind shav's without the chaos (dmg doesn't bypass es) mod? i guess it's the most OP item in this game.

Did they introduce new version of shav's I missed?

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1267071/page/1

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robmafia wrote:

so it's not... stats/usefulness/etc that determine what's OP or not. it's.... rarity. got it.

Try focusing very hard for a little while, as I'm going to present you with unimaginable concept:

You have to consider both things at the same time. :O

I know, I know. It may be hard to understand. But try. Imagine this: the more powerful something is, the rarer it should be. The sole reason new abyss belt is overpowered is the fact it is so easy to get one.
If it was much rarer, it would be balanced.

Wow, right?!

Sorry for that one, but I couldn't help myself. You act like you can't think of the 2 things at the same time and support your argument with incredibly weird hyperboles.

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robmafia wrote:

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k4n3 wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

Yeah, the main problem of Shaped/Elder rares is that their mods are too good for some builds, and those builds already were strong!
Also, their drop is far too low. 1 item per 2 alched maps? Seriously? Why they should be so damn rare?

If their drop were higher then they would be truly overpowered.

*facepalm*

because rarity dictates if something's OP or not. /s

Exactly!!!

OP items can be accessible,
OP items can be less accessible,

Doesn't change teh fact it is OP.

Thats like saying Veyron is not overpower for the road, because its not accesible for most people. Make no senses.

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Perq wrote:

Try focusing very hard for a little while, as I'm going to present you with unimaginable concept:

You have to consider both things at the same time. :O

I know, I know. It may be hard to understand. But try. Imagine this: the more powerful something is, the rarer it should be. The sole reason new abyss belt is overpowered is the fact it is so easy to get one.
If it was much rarer, it would be balanced.

Wow, right?!

Sorry for that one, but I couldn't help myself. You act like you can't think of the 2 things at the same time and support your argument with incredibly weird hyperboles.

More OP items should be more rare, okay fair,

You can think of 2 things (persume more powerful & rarity) at once. Of course.

But OP simply means Overpower. Its thats simple.

Most people can accept the argument (whether agree or disagree) that more OP items should be rarer, fair enough, but you are trying to push

OP= Powerful + accessible,

which is making up your own definition, of an established word.

Tbh getting a 6L helmet for 4c (+5 fuses and chroms) with "Place an additional Mine" is pretty OP, even if I don't get a lot of ES from it. However, getting the 8L (if none of the linked supports are in mutually exclusive mod groups) on a top base with significant ES is considerably more difficult. Only 8 ilvl 83+ Hubris Circlets are sold in Abyss at all; none of them have good mods.

I also use a 20c dagger with physical to cold conversion, which made it only 7% more damage than the previous dagger I had, which had crafted spell damage. The mod stacks additively with hatred, but that's also a downside. The more you already convert, the less beneficial the conversion is, and the conversions do take up prefix slots. I agree it's useful for fake dw though. Still, I wouldn't dual wield them for my caster build either; I prefer to have a shield for defence.

The top level items of 100c and up are actually elevating the general power level, but apart from that it's just a lot more accessible than before, opening up the game to people who didn't belong to the top 1% before. The disadvantage is that a lot of items that could be sold for a lot before and would mean earning a fortune if one was lucky enough to get a drop, are worth a lot less. Items that seem like they would be worth 10-20c go into one of my 1c tabs immediately.

And while I agree that Stygian Vises in general are somewhat overpowered compared to non atlas belts (so far I have yet to see a jewel that would be worth more than 80 ES), I don't think the dual jewel belt is that much better than rare belts with good resistances either.
This actually interacts positively with the shaped mods, because most shaped / elder items are missing the regular defensive stats (life, ES, armour, evasion, resistances), so you're more likely to pick a non-unique belt to complement the shaped items instead of stacking added damage (or whatever mods people like on abyss jewels) in a unique abyss belt without stats.

TL;DR:
Do I think the Abyss Jewels and Shaped / Elder items are powercreep? Yes. Will they trivialise end game content more than previously existing 15c 5L Shaper killing builds? Doubtful. Maybe you can do it on 10c now, but who cares when it comes to these tiny amounts. You earn way more just by leveling until your skill tree fills up far enough.

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KiadawP wrote:

But OP simply means Overpower. Its thats simple.

Most people can accept the argument (whether agree or disagree) that more OP items should be rarer, fair enough, but you are trying to push

OP= Powerful + accessible,

which is making up your own definition, of an established word.

Overpowered for their rarity tier. I simply have nothing against Headhunter being in the game, even tho I will never have one. This simply makes the game a little bit longer if someone is willing to put the time to get those items.

And as I said, some of these mods (like the additional physical % to elementals) should be almost headhunter-tier rare. Maybe not that rare. :P But rarer than they are currently. This way you would have an option to upgrade your Princess someday... :V