New Shaper/Elder mods are actually great for game's economy/health

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Perq wrote:

Sorry for that one, but I couldn't help myself. You act like you can't think of the 2 things at the same time and support your argument with incredibly weird hyperboles.

it was literally your argument.

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robmafia wrote:

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Perq wrote:

Sorry for that one, but I couldn't help myself. You act like you can't think of the 2 things at the same time and support your argument with incredibly weird hyperboles.

it was literally your argument.

No, it wasn't. Read it again, please.

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Perq wrote:

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robmafia wrote:

*facepalm*

because rarity dictates if something's OP or not. /s

Yes, of course it does.

*ahem*

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

Yeah, the main problem of Shaped/Elder rares is that their mods are too good for some builds, and those builds already were strong!
Also, their drop is far too low. 1 item per 2 alched maps? Seriously? Why they should be so damn rare?

You can easily buy any base that fits your statstick offhand and just spam a bunch of chaos orbs and literally it will be better than any other offhand. You don't need that much RNG, Just a couple of those broken mods. As far as i know, global hatred/herald of ash auras in swords require lvl 80 and those are preffixes, you can still get the ele pen as a suffix, only 3 mods to hit. So just buy any ilevel 80 base, spam chaos and there you go, up to 80% extra phys as ele damage with ele pen as well.

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IIPheXII wrote:

You can easily buy any base that fits your statstick offhand and just spam a bunch of chaos orbs and literally it will be better than any other offhand. You don't need that much RNG, Just a couple of those broken mods. As far as i know, global hatred/herald of ash auras in swords require lvl 80 and those are preffixes, you can still get the ele pen as a suffix, only 3 mods to hit. So just buy any ilevel 80 base, spam chaos and there you go, up to 80% extra phys as ele damage with ele pen as well.

I think that's a problem with how "statstick offhands" work in fake dual wielding; not with the shaped mods in general. Again, they're powerful, and they're cheaper than the same level of power used to be, but getting top tier items isn't much cheaper than before. Not to mention, most builds focus on a particular type of damage.
Getting 80% (which would be two t1 max rolls, and keep in mind you have 50% more mods to roll from than before, which makes getting the mods in the first place harder than it used to be rolling good mods on items) of physical as extra elemental is nice, but you have to consider that A, they're two different elements, so individual increments to elemental damage or penetration won't work well, and B, if you want to gain the most from extra elemental damage, you spec for elemental damage and have at least one (possibly 3-4) sources of extra elemental damage already, diminishing the effectivity of these mods.

And even if a 100-200c offhand now provides 10-20% more damage than a previous 100-200c offhand, how is that so incredibly overpowered? Please show an example of a build that was actually previously optimised (not a bad build that suddenly works due to shaped items) and profits way more from shaped items than it does from proper previous items. And don't try to tell me that rolling 2 of 18 prefix mods as t1 and 1 of 28 suffix mods is a lot cheaper than what I'm guessing either.

Well the thing is, items like Death's Hand or Tempestous Steel already existed. And honestly, 15% to two Elements and Hits cannot be evaded is pretty close to what those other offhands give and we are speaking about 1c items here.

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Getting 80% (which would be two t1 max rolls, and keep in mind you have 50% more mods to roll from than before, which makes getting the mods in the first place harder than it used to be rolling good mods on items) of physical as extra elemental is nice, but you have to consider that A, they're two different elements, so individual increments to elemental damage or penetration won't work well, and B, if you want to gain the most from extra elemental damage, you spec for elemental damage and have at least one (possibly 3-4) sources of extra elemental damage already, diminishing the effectivity of these mods.

1. You don't really need max rolls and I don't even know what else you can roll. Literally every 1h weapon I dropped so far had at least one of those mods, although not the highest ones, because they need 80+, but you can get lower ones before and they are not that uncommon, since dropped items seem to have at least one of those special mods you might actually drop one of those with a fair chance.

2. Those mods don't get weaker the more you have. Their value stays the same. 30% of physical damage as extra elemental damage always gives you 30% of physical damage as extra elemental damage. And if we think Templer you can actually do a good pen build since you have decent nodes you can get that grant general penetration. And most enemies don't have too much resistance anyway. So you wont get that crazy 50% more damage focussed pen-builds get, but this elemental damage you get still is as valuable as your physical damage.


I mean I still don't think those items are too crazy, because items like Tempestuous Steel exist, which allows usage of Elemental Overload due to removing the requirement of RT and still provides 30% Physical Damage as extra Elemental Damage. The issue with those items though is that they are so much better than other Shaper Items. 2h Weapons suck, because you basically have 3 fixed prefixes on them, so you don't actually want a shaper prefix, you are more open with suffixes if you are non-crit, since only AS is important, but since you need the weapon to deal damage rolling a good one is a lot harder. And those stat sticks are not just an issue with sunder. They work pretty well for Physical Spells too... and you can use two of them and they can still roll spelldamage.

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robmafia wrote:

it's not... stats/usefulness/etc that determine what's OP.

Hey, look, you just said that stats are not what determine that items are OP!

Lol! duh ehem *facepalm*

I can make retarded, out of context quotes too. You'll making a slow progress, but it seems you need some more time.
Next time try reading my post beyond first sentence. Might help you understand a thing or two.

So no, that wasn't my argument. You are just trying very hard to make it so.

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Perq wrote:

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robmafia wrote:

it's not... stats/usefulness/etc that determine what's OP.

Hey, look, you just said that stats are not what determine that items are OP!

Lol! duh ehem *facepalm*

I can make retarded, out of context quotes too. You'll making a slow progress, but it seems you need some more time.
Next time try reading my post beyond first sentence. Might help you understand a thing or two.

So no, that wasn't my argument. You are just trying very hard to make it so.

out of context?

it was literally your words responding to exactly what was above?

that WAS the context.


edit: we're 3 pages in and you're still the only person who thinks that OP-ness is based on rarity. in addition, you have no evidence to support that position and have now backpedaled on your own quote.

it speaks volumes.

OP is anything that trivializes the game almost completely. Being cheap is just to add insult to injury.

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robmafia wrote:

edit: we're 3 pages in and you're still the only person who thinks that OP-ness is based on rarity. in addition, you have no evidence to support that position and have now backpedaled on your own quote.

it speaks volumes.

[Removed by Support] I'm not trying to be offensive here. Do you have problems with reading comprehension? I'm unsure if you are willingly trying to ignore what I'm saying, or have problems understand what I'm saying.
I'm going to try again.

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Yes, of course it does.

Disfavor having 600 pDPS doesn't mean it is OP. It would OP if it was a 1c unique, but it isn't.

This is what I said. This is what you should have quoted. This means I think that very powerful items should be very rare and hard to get. I didn't say that all powerful items can be balanced with rarity only. This is why Acuity was changed. There are some other mechanics that cannot be balanced with rarity only.

The fact of 870 pDPS weapons existing on standard doesn't mean everyone can get one. For the same reason 870 pDPS weapon isn't overpowered. If you can get one, you earned it.

The ~100% added elemental off-handers for dual wield (and physical spells) are overpowered. They are far too common for what they do (and the affix range may be too high overall). If they were as rare as 870 pDPS rare axes from standard, nobody would care.
That said, the Princess exists. You may as well just have another weapon in your off hand that grants you bonuses to damage (be it dual wield or spell caster). Arguably, I'd say the Princess is overpowered. Not because of what it does, but because of it being a 1c unique. This DOES NOT mean that what it does is overpowered in terms of its raw power.

Also, I can't help but think that your arguments against the option to get more powerful items comes from you simply being jealous of people who actually got those. I may be wrong, tho. I hope I'm wrong here. :V