Trade API Delays

I believe access for individual people should not be allowed. Whitelisting large sights is the best solution here.

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thezensei wrote:

It's complete nonsense to even attempt to discuss "even playing field" in a trading context. Most people who trade, including me, don't have an issue with people sniping. People who try to snipe without proper sniping software will complain.

In a properly designed trading system, why would you need special software to snipe? Sniping should be a PLAYER skill, just like all other gaming skills.

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DGTLDaemon wrote:

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thezensei wrote:

It's complete nonsense to even attempt to discuss "even playing field" in a trading context. Most people who trade, including me, don't have an issue with people sniping. People who try to snipe without proper sniping software will complain.

In a properly designed trading system, why would you need special software to snipe? Sniping should be a PLAYER skill, just like all other gaming skills.

Sure, but you've got to realize the game you're playing was made by an organically growing indie studio who didn't have the resources to make everything people requested.

And when thinking about it, opening up to alternative solutions drive more user adoption, from a bigger picture. Some might enjoy poe.trade the most, meanwhile other enjoy poeapp or poe.com/trade more.

If GGG lock the trade functionality in, there's only 1 way to interact with it, which might alienate an existing user base - which can become problematic.

Remember what happened with Digg and Yahoo Mail, to take a couple of examples? After major changes to their site, their user base felt alienated, and the sites did horrible after the changes.

I appreciate you have your own perspective on this, but I think it's best to look at this from a bigger picture.

Pro/cons of sniping tools:

Cons:
- Snipers without sniping tools lose out. I don't care.
- Snipers have to download executables from 3rd parties. Indirectly advocating this is a problem for the game.
- GGG's API is being bombarded with requests.

Pros:
- Effective, reliable and fast price checking service for everyone.

Remember, the presence of snipers does not drive prices up for the average player.
I see the server traffic issue as the most serious.

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Hassefar60 wrote:

Pro/cons of sniping tools:

Cons:
- Snipers without sniping tools lose out. I don't care.
- Snipers have to download executables from 3rd parties. Indirectly advocating this is a problem for the game.
- GGG's API is being bombarded with requests.

Pros:
- Effective, reliable and fast price checking service for everyone.

Remember, the presence of snipers does not drive prices up for the average player.
I see the server traffic issue as the most serious.

Some sensible points here, however - I would actually prefer an application over a website in some cases, such as a trading companion, Path of Building etc. I think now that it's already out there, we should just try to embrace it. Of course, it's not for everybody, and we should embrace that fact as well.

The best solution would of course be to make your own trade indexer as good or better then poe.trade.
And eliminate all other sources of indexing for better control.

But until that happens whitelisting poe.trade as the only indexer since you have worked with them in the past is probably the best option.

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thezensei wrote:

Sure, but you've got to realize the game you're playing was made by an organically growing indie studio who didn't have the resources to make everything people requested.

And when thinking about it, opening up to alternative solutions drive more user adoption, from a bigger picture. Some might enjoy poe.trade the most, meanwhile other enjoy poeapp or poe.com/trade more.

If GGG lock the trade functionality in, there's only 1 way to interact with it, which might alienate an existing user base - which can become problematic.

Remember what happened with Digg and Yahoo Mail, to take a couple of examples? After major changes to their site, their user base felt alienated, and the sites did horrible after the changes.

I appreciate you have your own perspective on this, but I think it's best to look at this from a bigger picture.

The problem here is that economy is a crucial component of the game. Being able to snatch an underpriced item before everyone else isn't just about convenience, it gives you a tangible advantage in-game. It creates inequality. Think about it this way: player A spends X amount of time grinding the currency required to purchase a certain item, while player B spends only 1/2 X amount of time grinding the currency for the same item, because he's able to grab it for half price using a private indexer. It literally breaks the economy, because people with private indexers simply have an easier game than everybody else.

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thezensei wrote:

... however - I would actually prefer an application over a website in some cases, such as a trading companion, Path of Building etc. ...

Disregarding the security issue, I understand. Open source is a minimum.

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DGTLDaemon wrote:

"

thezensei wrote:

Sure, but you've got to realize the game you're playing was made by an organically growing indie studio who didn't have the resources to make everything people requested.

And when thinking about it, opening up to alternative solutions drive more user adoption, from a bigger picture. Some might enjoy poe.trade the most, meanwhile other enjoy poeapp or poe.com/trade more.

If GGG lock the trade functionality in, there's only 1 way to interact with it, which might alienate an existing user base - which can become problematic.

Remember what happened with Digg and Yahoo Mail, to take a couple of examples? After major changes to their site, their user base felt alienated, and the sites did horrible after the changes.

I appreciate you have your own perspective on this, but I think it's best to look at this from a bigger picture.

The problem here is that economy is a crucial component of the game. Being able to snatch an underpriced item before everyone else isn't just about convenience, it gives you a tangible advantage in-game. It creates inequality. Think about it this way: player A spends X amount of time grinding the currency required to purchase a certain item, while player B spends only 1/2 X amount of time grinding the currency for the same item, because he's able to grab it for half price using a private indexer. It literally breaks the economy, because people with private indexers simply have an easier game than everybody else.

People who go out of their way to get an edge will always have one. If there is a will, there is a way. True equality is not achievable.

The best way is to educate the players, and present good options if they want to step up their trading game. I think the discussion has blown the sniping problem out it's proportions (for players). This isn't affecting most people. It is however affecting people who want to snipe without the tools. Well, guess what? They're always going to have an edge, because they're going to put in that much more effort. If there is a will, there will be a way. By adding overly restrictive rules in place for people who want to provide a better user experience for everyone, and stifle innovation in a futile attempt to hinder snipers with an advantage is just not going to be a good way forward.

The bigger issue in my opinion are price-fixers, who manipulate the perception of a price to game the players in a systematic fashion.

Again, difficult to overcome, and the lowest hanging fruit is to educate players.

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Hassefar60 wrote:

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thezensei wrote:

... however - I would actually prefer an application over a website in some cases, such as a trading companion, Path of Building etc. ...

Disregarding the security issue, I understand. Open source is a minimum.

That should be up to the user, not Grinding Gear Games.