With the Lycosidae nerf GGG is really saying

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Vipermagi wrote:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

I dont see left side of tree crit being rarely used as a bad thing. thematically speaking crit is supposed to be the right side of the tree's wheel house

Crit is part of Intelligence specifically, which makes it more closely tied to the topside than the right. It's the reason why the Duelist gets almost zero Crit in its starting zone; his section only touches Deadly Dilettante (25% lol) and King of the Hill (100%).
(Studious Combatant does not exist imo, but, 10% technically)

The Templar is a Crit class. Four legitimate Crit clusters, Crit Mult even. No Dex though, and utter trash for Accuracy - it's staff-wielding Spellslinger or bust.

e; dumb typo

Ehh I disagree here. Honestly its better to say that general crit is focused more on the top right side of the tree. where if you go to the left in the witch you get spell focused crit and if you south to the ranger you get more attack focused crit.

put another way . crit is basically the right of witch and the left of the ranger as this is where you can find the vast majority of the general crit nodes .. where as everything outside of this areas is usually weapon specific.

conversely the crit dead zone is below the lane separating templar and marauder , excluding the one node next to RT and extends all the way to lane separating the duelist and the ranger.

So while yes the templar is a crit class and does have access to crit . it is also very clearly on the fringes of it and as a result has a limited set of viable options.

as you put it "it's staff-wielding Spellslinger or bust."

this kind of limit is no different to say complaining that the shadow is only good with daggars and claws while sucking with 2 hand hammers... because he just doesnt have any close by nodes.

at the end of the day i am still not convince that spider-grill was a bandaid or really fixed anything that needed to be fixed.

All it was and is , is a short cut so that you did not have to pay the appropriate price in gear and passives to make builds which were otherwise inefficient work.

but in those cases even those builds could over come said inefficiency with .. gear. that is still a valid option.. now there isn't this 1 chaos shield floating around which makes such investment unnecessary.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

Ehh I disagree here.

Well, that's what GGG says, crit is int aligned and elemental damage is supposedly int aligned too, might even be a quote on that somewhere in the misty past of open beta. They've deviated from it somewhat but that was the general idea.

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raics wrote:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

Ehh I disagree here.

Well, that's what GGG says, crit is int aligned and elemental damage is supposedly int aligned too, might even be a quote on that somewhere in the misty past of open beta. They've deviated from it somewhat but that was the general idea.

One need only look at the tree to see that to be somewhat missleading.

most of the general crit nodes are on or around the shadow. and the farther away from the shadow you get .. the more specialized the crit bubbles become. and the fewer there are.

I wont argue with intent because as conveying intent accurately is and always will be an imperfect process



the elemental one is more valid though. ggg did a much better job with the dispersion of elemental damage on the tree to favor the witch. with both templar and shadow getting healthy amounts as well

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Vipermagi wrote:

GGG's core design doesn't.

GGG are people too you know. They arent perfect.

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Don't act stupid please, it makes it hard to take you seriously. You know full well that this comparision is utter crap; Maces are 100% Strength, and thus the polar opposite of the Shadow. A Crit Class should have more than one Crit option. Even the Ranger has more Crit options for fuck's sake.

how is it stupid?


if maces are 100% str .. then why are there made nodes in the templar tree? regardless the underlying point stands

not everyone can be equally good at everything . they all have easier access to something over others and worse access to many things as a price.


shadow has excellent access to crit , but is clearly not suited to 2 handers in any capacity (hammers were just an example please dont dwell to much on it)


where as templar and mara are excellent choices for 2 hand builds .. but their options with crit are not as comprehensive as the shadows.



Of course the ranger has more crit options . which class is closer to the shadow? the templar or the ranger? I did already say that the tree is very clearly set so that the focal point of crit in on the shadow.

just because ggg has an intent for int to be the crit stat doesn't actually mean they were successful in execution ( they were not)


you are comparing a class right next to that focal point .. to one almost on the other side of the tree. if you thought my hammer comparison was unreasonable .. then what am i to think of this?

the ranger has more crit by simple fact that she shares an area with THE crit class.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

the elemental one is more valid though. ggg did a much better job with the dispersion of elemental damage on the tree to favor the witch. with both templar and shadow getting healthy amounts as well

Except for elemental damage with weapons which is a bit more prolific. Therefore, crit with specific weapon can also be more prolific, crit with melee weapons can go into north str area and crit with ranged weapons can go into north dex area. It's supposed to be a thing, not a joke.

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Vipermagi wrote:

"if maces are 100% str .. then why are there made nodes in the templar tree? regardless the underlying point stands"
There's multiple reasons for that!

1. The Templar is still 50% Strength. I figured this would be stupendously obvious.
2. The pure-Mace cluster is a Crit/Ele cluster, which is exactly Intelligence.
3. The hybrid cluster mixes in Staff modifiers, which are Str/Int weapons. Whoops that's exactly Templar.

Your point was still really dumb.

I feel you are getting hung up on the wrong thing here. and i was wrong for also getting bogged down in it with that response

that being said

it technically is still valid


yes the shadow has no 2 hander mace nodes and yes it is an extreme example but it does prove a point. ie that position on the tree has a dramatic impact on what a class can and cant do and that honestly it has less to do with a primary stat and more do to with the locations of nodes

so yeah templar can do some crit but only because of the nodes around him. like the shadow not being good for 2 hand maces .. the templar is simply not the best option for many crit builds. because the crit nodes he does have just arent good for everything and because he needs more investment into accuracy which a dex build kind of just gets.

its a trade off.. one of many

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raics wrote:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

the elemental one is more valid though. ggg did a much better job with the dispersion of elemental damage on the tree to favor the witch. with both templar and shadow getting healthy amounts as well

Except for elemental damage with weapons which is a bit more prolific. Therefore, crit with specific weapon can also be more prolific, crit with melee weapons can go into north str area and crit with ranged weapons can go into north dex area. It's supposed to be a thing, not a joke.

but those thing have caveats . ie dex has elemental .. buts elemental only for weapons. you cant honestly call it the same as having access to just elemental damage.

you wont be making an elemental spell caster ranger with those weapon elemental nodes like you could with a witch afterall.

nor would that same ranger have the same kind of mana sustain that someone sitting next to say .. mind over matter would have.


so in that sense again what is the issue with the crit balance? there is crit on the left side of the tree , just like there is elemental damage in the dex heavy side of the tree. but they both have limitations. neither are as versatile as the options afforded to them else where.


just like how elemental damage for the ranger is restricted to attacks and she lacks good mana sustain for spell based elemental damage
the left side of the tree has crit . but it is limited to staves or spells with accuracy being a sparse and valuable resource.

Blade Master + Undeniable = 1200 flat accuracy, if you are a 2H/1h sword jugger.

A good first idea whose love could be spreaded to more general accuracy nodes in the Marauder+Templar area.

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gandhar0 wrote:

Blade Master + Undeniable = 1200 flat accuracy, if you are a 2H/1h sword jugger.

A good first idea whose love could be spreaded to more general accuracy nodes in the Marauder+Templar area.

but if you do that , wont that just ruin the identity of those two nodes as well as dexterity?


if you make getting accuracy a trivial thing for strength .. then you effectively take way one of the few benefits dexterity has.

and as a stat . dexterity is already considered the least useful on its own since unlike int or str it does not contribute to ehp.