3.1: RIP Reflect. Long Live Clear Speed Meta.

"

LaiTash wrote:

"

Off screen projectile characters would actually have to be scared...

Dying to something before you can even see it... like PoE doesn't have enough of this crap.

Is there a particular reason you feel like you're entitled to kill stuff three screens away from you for free?

This is why everybody hates the Clearspeed Meta, even half the people who play the Clearspeed Meta. It encourages the dumbest shit. The hell is even the point of running the game if you are literally not bothering to see what you're doing because actually watching the game, reacting to it, and doing all those things that constitute PLAYING THE GAME in every other video game worth its salt is just2slo.

Y'all got your wish. You no longer need to give a rat's ass about Reflect. Why are you all still carping?

"

1453R wrote:

"

LaiTash wrote:

"

Off screen projectile characters would actually have to be scared...

Dying to something before you can even see it... like PoE doesn't have enough of this crap.

Is there a particular reason you feel like you're entitled to kill stuff three screens away from you for free?

Dunno, i play mostly mellee. But there should be limiting factors other than stuff that kills you without you knowing what hit you.

"

1453R wrote:

"

LaiTash wrote:

"

Off screen projectile characters would actually have to be scared...

Dying to something before you can even see it... like PoE doesn't have enough of this crap.

Is there a particular reason you feel like you're entitled to kill stuff three screens away from you for free?

This is why everybody hates the Clearspeed Meta, even half the people who play the Clearspeed Meta. It encourages the dumbest shit. The hell is even the point of running the game if you are literally not bothering to see what you're doing because actually watching the game, reacting to it, and doing all those things that constitute PLAYING THE GAME in every other video game worth its salt is just2slo.

Y'all got your wish. You no longer need to give a rat's ass about Reflect. Why are you all still carping?

This is the best example of 'I saw 1 streamer with projectiles shooting 3 screens away, all projectiles must be like that' comment I've seen in a while. Besides the fact it's just not true, it's not like we design skills ourselves. Or that we are actively trying to offscreen stuff. If you allow skills that are able to offscreen, stuff like reflect becomes stupid. There is nothing you can do against it besides running up to every rare, wait 5 min to check what mod it has, then shoot it. Maybe you enjoy that, but I certainly don't.

"

k1rage wrote:

"

Nubatron wrote:

I agree with folks saying that reflect was not equitable in how it impacted builds. Different skills certainly struggled more with it than others. That being said, I personally agree with the function that reflect was trying to provide -- resistance to DPS and speed without a hard cap on damage or movement and clear speed. I hate caps on damage, attack speed, etc....It's just an unintelligent way to balance. Just to clarify, it impacts movement/clear speed because if you care about reflect you don't want to run around pewpewpew'ing without paying attention to what you're shooting at.

I just like when everything you may do has a counter of some sort that you have to think about, but that's largely because one of my personal favorite things about this game is theory crafting.

Want to really enjoy the game? Don't ever use any build but your own.

ill go without the headache of making my own build thank you

Headache? Or Glory?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb1YTNCvZT4

That build probably wouldn't take out Shaper, but was probably more fulfilling than copying any build and going through the motions of another person :)

"

Miská wrote:

This is the best example of 'I saw 1 streamer with projectiles shooting 3 screens away, all projectiles must be like that' comment I've seen in a while. Besides the fact it's just not true, it's not like we design skills ourselves. Or that we are actively trying to offscreen stuff. If you allow skills that are able to offscreen, stuff like reflect becomes stupid. There is nothing you can do against it besides running up to every rare, wait 5 min to check what mod it has, then shoot it. Maybe you enjoy that, but I certainly don't.

Then perhaps projectiles should stop persisting offscreen, at least to the degree they do. Far enough to reach the edge of a pack that's only half onscreen? Sure, that's a reasonable distance to expect your projectiles to go. But reaching four goddamned screens away? No.

I don't actually particularly enjoy my projectile builds offscreening crap - I want to watch my kills, I want to know what I'm hitting, and I want to see my drops, not hear a Decent Drop Noise and then spend eight years trying to figure out which ice dart chained to what batch of pinatas where to find whatever it was I scored.

But you know, I know, and everybody else knows that this is not the normal stance on offscreening. The Speedclear Meta guys will offscreen everything they can in their bid to clear maps that last few thousands of a second faster so they can get more exalts whilst leaving thousands of everything-not-exalts behind them. Even the non-Speedclear guys tend to hold offscreening as being a Huge Advantage of ranged builds and yet another one of the memey reasons why the MELEE SUCKS!! lulmeme keeps persisting.

Perhaps it's time to make offscreening stop being a thing for everybody, huh?

"

LaiTash wrote:

Dunno, i play mostly mellee. But there should be limiting factors other than stuff that kills you without you knowing what hit you.

Okay. You kvetched and moaned about how the Vaal Picnic nerf was going to RUIN EVERYTHING FOREVER! because now people had NO POSSIBLE WAY to survive reflect. They changed Reflect into a weird mortar-thingus that has nothing to do with reflect and should honestly not even be called Reflect, as it's more like a triggered counterattack than any sort of reflection, and the Speedclear StupiBuilds everybody runs are the best ones at avoiding it. And yet here you are, still kvetching. You got what you wanted. You no longer have to slow down ever again for any reason in a map.

Why are you grousing now?

"

1453R wrote:

"

LaiTash wrote:

Dunno, i play mostly mellee. But there should be limiting factors other than stuff that kills you without you knowing what hit you.

Okay. You kvetched and moaned about how the Vaal Picnic nerf was going to RUIN EVERYTHING FOREVER! because now people had NO POSSIBLE WAY to survive reflect. They changed Reflect into a weird mortar-thingus that has nothing to do with reflect and should honestly not even be called Reflect, as it's more like a triggered counterattack than any sort of reflection, and the Speedclear StupiBuilds everybody runs are the best ones at avoiding it. And yet here you are, still kvetching. You got what you wanted. You no longer have to slow down ever again for any reason in a map.

Why are you grousing now?

No i wanted them to remove reflect completely, not to replace it with a stupid mortar that has no purpose other than to punish slower builds.

And BTW you can try playing HC if you're tired of seeing Speedclear StupiBuilds everywhere. Then you would also probably know why i was against nerfing VP.

"

1453R wrote:

"

LaiTash wrote:

"

Off screen projectile characters would actually have to be scared...

Dying to something before you can even see it... like PoE doesn't have enough of this crap.

Is there a particular reason you feel like you're entitled to kill stuff three screens away from you for free?

This is why everybody hates the Clearspeed Meta, even half the people who play the Clearspeed Meta. It encourages the dumbest shit. The hell is even the point of running the game if you are literally not bothering to see what you're doing because actually watching the game, reacting to it, and doing all those things that constitute PLAYING THE GAME in every other video game worth its salt is just2slo.

Y'all got your wish. You no longer need to give a rat's ass about Reflect. Why are you all still carping?

then reduce the range of stuff or something.

i've said it before and I'll say it again.

putting in tons of abilities/ascendancies/skillpoints/support gems that promote offscreening stuff specifically, and then severely punishing you for using them.

is like giving you a racecar, then fixing the brakes so you crash into the first wall.

if offscreening things is an issue, remove our ability to do so, not punish us for doing it.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

I don't care if Chris said that PoE should be a game you can play while watching TV (...part of me still can't believe he said that)

Chris makes sense here, but that's only cause he made the game this way. Since xp you get per map got dumpstered compared to old days, you have to play a metric fuckton of maps to level up. If I'm gonna play that many maps, there's only one sane way to do it - fastest projectile build possible that nukes the entire screen in one hit.

If I have to go at snail pace, watch carefully every trash mob, mouse over them, fight a long and engaging fight that demands my 100% attention with a mob of trash skeletons in a T3 map, cleap a map in 27 minutes and then have to do this thousands of time more - I would uninstall.

I didnt make the game that way, Chris and the balance boys did.


P.S. Speaking of clearspeed meta, this game never had anything other than clearspeed meta. People think game was slow because they watch those hipster trash builds in old "build of the week" clips. Game was fast since day 1 of my playing (early 2013), though it did get faster due to few things, one notable difference is movement skills being both overpowered and mandatory and movement skills were unusable back in the day because of desync.

I agree with the pickup truck fully. I'd also add that the War for the Atlas mechanic (shaped / elder items) and to a lesser extent the abyss league is what the game has needed more new content to do. Make rare items great again. Give people a reason to identify yellows.

It may still, despite this, be more lucrative to blast through maps and only pick up exalts and a few other things, but hopefully less so now than ever before.

It's VP changes that would kill clear speed Meta, not reflect changes. Reflect changes would wise versa just make it even better.